Author Topic: cat sneeze loads using cast bullets (Read 5033 times)

matthewquigley · « **on:** August 02, 2009, 05:32:37 PM »

cat sneeze loads are pistol rounds fired in a rifle just under sonic speeds (700-800 fps) 3.5 grains of bullseye and a 140-200 gr semi wadcutter in my 357 handi rifle sounds like an air rifle , long barrel attenuates muzzle blast but still hits with SERIOUS authority, accurate 1-2 inch groups at 20-50 yards
economical and quiet way to fill stewpot! Grin and pest control is serious fun!
has anyone else played with these? have to use a cast bullet to avoid a jacket/sore separation leaving a jacket behind as a barrel obstruction

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #1 on:** August 03, 2009, 10:50:19 AM »

I shoot gobs of them in my M91 Mauser rebarreled to .35 Remington. I also shoot thousands of Hornady swaged lead .32 HBWCs or the Hornady SWC along with casting Lee's TL314-90-SWC in most of my .30 and .31 caliber rifles. I use 2.7 gr Bullsey up through 30-30 capcity and 3.2 for larger cases. I also use 210 HBWCs and 275 gr RNFN bullets in my 45-70s with cat's sneeze loads.

Larry Gibson

patw · « **Reply #2 on:** August 03, 2009, 11:49:55 AM »

I have played with it in the past. Used Bullseye and 700X with toilet paper filler in 30-30 and 45-70. I was trying different loads in a 45-70 and somehow leaded the throat badly. When I finally get it cleaned up I will continue. Those loads were very quiet but that 500 gr bullet hit harder than I would have thought.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #3 on:** August 03, 2009, 02:53:37 PM »

3 grains of bullseye what the smallest red lee scoop throws
180 grain LBT WFN

is my load

heavy lead is quieter

will penetrate 22 inches of wet phone books

who needs a suppressor

matthewquigley · « **Reply #4 on:** August 03, 2009, 03:01:34 PM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on August 03, 2009, 02:53:37 PM

3 grains of bullseye what the smallest red lee scoop throws
180 grain LBT WFN

is my load

heavy lead is quieter

will penetrate 22 inches of wet phone books

who needs a suppressor

ilike it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nobade · « **Reply #5 on:** August 08, 2009, 09:39:39 AM »

Yep. 1.5 - 2.0 gr. Clays and a 535gr. pure lead Postell in my 45-70 is quieter than my air rifle and hits harder than a 357 mag. They'll go clear through a deer at 50 feet easy....

haroldclark · « **Reply #6 on:** October 10, 2009, 03:27:42 PM »

Cat sneeze loads? Yeah, I have had a great time with my 30/30 Marlin Cowboy with a 24" barrel. My shooting buddies think I'm only using a Primer to expel the bullet out the barrel. I have a Saeco 630 mold that puts our a great little 138 grain 30 caliber plain base bullet. I can get it up to 1460 fps with 8 grains of unique and a Large Pistol Primer. I size the bullets to .310 nose first in a Star Lubrisizer.

No recoil and low noise. I won't even tell you how far I shoot them with deadly accuracy. You wouldn't believe it. Of course, the wind and mirage has to be dealt with.

I have shot 38 specials in my 357 Marlin rifle with 3.5 grains of BE with a 158 grain plain base SWC.

patw · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2009, 02:28:27 PM »

I just went and tried some bullseye in a 45-70 trapdoor carbine with a 20 inch barrel. I used as cast (.459) 450 grain bullets, started at 3.0 grains, not loud, but definitely not quiet enough. Tried 2.0 gr, still too loud. Last try was 1.3 grains - not very loud, and the bullet went through a 2X6. I was going to keep going down on the powder charge, but it got dark.

Last month I was playing with a 300-221 with a 16 in barrel, trying to get quiet loads. I was using 110 grain cast bullets. Started at 3 grains of bullseye, kept going down and finally stopped at 1.2 grain. It was about like an air rifle, and the bullet went through the 2X6 target.

mrloring · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2009, 05:10:32 PM »

I shoot a Lee CTL312-160-2R without the GC out of several different rifles a K31, Ishy Enfield, and a P17 with 9 grains of Trail Boss for a load right above the speed of sound. Trail boss was made for cast bullets and it takes up lots of case volume so no need for filler. You could lower the load the insure you stayed below the speed of sound. With my K31 and the rear sight set to 600 meters small varmints are toast at 100 yards.

By the way I call them bunny fart loads!

More info here
http://www.surplusrifle.com/articles2008/trailbosskiss/index.asp

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2009, 02:55:23 PM »

Aren't these loads to low in volume to fill the case?

mrloring · « **Reply #10 on:** October 12, 2009, 04:10:47 PM »

Quote from: kevinsmith5 on October 12, 2009, 02:55:23 PM

Aren't these loads to low in volume to fill the case?

Yes but you don't need to "fill" the case? My standard 38 special loads don't come close to filling the case.

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2009, 05:32:54 PM »

I didn't mean 100% density, but aren't you supposed to maintain at least 50% to insure proper ignition if the load shifts in the cartridge?

Hank08 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2009, 06:47:24 AM »

Not necessary with powders like bullseye that are so easy to ignite. A couple of grains burns up in a heartbeat no matter where it is in the case.
H08

mrloring · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2009, 04:43:55 PM »

Quote from: kevinsmith5 on October 12, 2009, 05:32:54 PM

I didn't mean 100% density, but aren't you supposed to maintain at least 50% to insure proper ignition if the load shifts in the cartridge?

That is why I like Trail Boss, really fluffy stuff. A standard 1 lb bottle only holds 9 ounces.

mechanic · « **Reply #14 on:** October 13, 2009, 04:53:53 PM »

Not only have I shot these loads, I killed a coyote outside my backdoor with a subsonic 38 in a 357 Handi. None of my neighbors even looked out a window. The same load in a 2" pistol would have alerted everyone. The coyote didn't know the difference. 148 gr. wadcutter to the cranial cavity put her to sleep forever.

Dezynco · « **Reply #15 on:** October 20, 2009, 06:01:01 PM »

I just had to get in on this! After reading this thread, I immediately went to my reloading bench to experiment.

I grabbed a few RCBS 180 grain cast bullets to test in my 30-30 Contender carbine. I started with 3.0 grains of Bullseye and got some pretty impressive results. Then I started gradually decreasing the powder charge. I got all the way down to 1 grain of Bullseye! Sounds like an air rifle going off! I got about a 2" group at 25 yards.

Plip-----whack! Plip-----whack! "Plip" when the gun was fired, "whack" when the bullet hit the target! The hammer hitting the firing pin was almost as loud as the report! All I can say is that if you are experimenting with "ultra-low" velocity cartridges, be sure that the bullet actually leaves the barrel before you fire the next round.

I can see this being a deadly combination in my little "short-patch" this deer season! 25 yard head shots, no messed up meat.

Dezynco · « **Reply #16 on:** October 21, 2009, 02:07:08 PM »

COOL! I tried 2 grains of Red Dot in my 30-30 carbine Contender with the 180 grain RCBS cast lead bullets. I can literally see the bullets flying through my scope, and all of them are going through one little hole! Amazing!

I shot at an old steel culvert (I know there's a risk of ricochet), the bullet just disintegrated, but made a nasty dent in the side of the culvert. Pretty potent load!

jhalcott · « **Reply #17 on:** October 23, 2009, 05:42:50 PM »

A nice neighbor of mine thought that these loads would be great for those cold rainy winter days/evenings.He put a target in the back of his basement thinking the wall would stop the SLOW bullets. He was WRONG!! He did some real damage to the blocks and had at least one ricochet! The gun was a 30-30 bolt gun.

Tommyt · « **Reply #18 on:** October 24, 2009, 01:18:41 AM »

Nice Neighbor needs to wake up
IMHO he should have never taken the second shot
Probably the first was just as wrong
Wonder why he didn't test it in a safer place first
Or stop after the first one damaged anything

Tommyt

Quote from: jhalcott on October 23, 2009, 05:42:50 PM

A nice neighbor of mine thought that these loads would be great for those cold rainy winter days/evenings.He put a target in the back of his basement thinking the wall would stop the SLOW bullets. He was WRONG!! He did some real damage to the blocks and had at least one ricochet! The gun was a 30-30 bolt gun.

Dezynco · « **Reply #19 on:** October 24, 2009, 02:21:32 AM »

Yep, since the idea is to use very heavy bullets, the momentum of the bullet does the work, not the speed. I shot that rusty old culvert from about 40 yards, but only once. Common sense took over and I decided not to do it again.

Makes a really big "PLANG" though!

mb4859 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 24, 2009, 03:29:33 AM »

What would you use for a 10" 44 magnum load?

45-70.gov · « **Reply #21 on:** October 24, 2009, 07:44:19 AM »

Quote from: mb4859 on October 24, 2009, 03:29:33 AM

What would you use for a 10" 44 magnum load?

the heavyest cast slug you have [no gas checks or jackets]

3 grains bullseye

seat the bullet as deep as you can

Dezynco · « **Reply #22 on:** October 24, 2009, 04:09:27 PM »

In my very limited experience, it seems that tumble-lubed bullets seem to work very well. After I tumble-lube mine, I punch them through a Lee sizing die. I think I read somewhere that the sub-sonic loads work best when the bullet is good and greasy, even to the point of using black powder lube such as SPG or White Lightning, pure lard, etc. I'm using Lee Liquid Alox, works for me.

I know from my experience shooting black powder cartridges, the bullet needs to be really greasy to keep the powder fowling down. Makes that big ole' bullet slide down the barrel easily, and makes it easy to clean all the funk out of the barrel. I guess sub-sonic "smokeless" loads would be sorta the same.