Author Topic: TC Encore vs NEF ????  (Read 3457 times)

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Offline fortress49

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« on: October 01, 2003, 06:39:04 AM »
I have been considering the purchase of an Encore Rifle.  Therefore, I have been looking at all the posts here on this forum and elsewhere trying to get a feel for what people like and don't like.  

Looking at all the "negative" comments concerning quality, having to "float" barrels, accuracy problems, etc., I am now wondering if the TC Encore is a good value.  Frankly, the posts here are moving me away from the TC decision.  It seems to me to me that a firearm in the price range of the TC Encore ought to come out of the box ready to go!  Maybe I am wrong on this point.  If so, let me know.  (I really DO LIKE the concept of the Encore, the look, the feel, etc.  Therefore I am a bit disheartened by the posts... :cry: ) Does the Encore really need a lot of aftermarket "magic" to get it to be accurate and reliable?  Please, restore my confidence!  It looks to me that the Encore is similar to the 1911 handguns in that you have to do a whole bunch of aftermarket "upgrades" to get them to function properly.  Any thoughts?

With this in mind, why would one purchase a TC instead of the NEF single shot rifle?  They also have barrels that interchange (however you do have to send the gun into the factory for fitting each time you want a different barrel).  The NEF is MUCH less expensive and accuracy is supposed to be good too (at least from what I have read - never shot one).  But, I could get a rifle plus two barrels for the price of a one barrel TC Encore.

Any thoughts would be appreciated greatly!

Matt

Offline PA-Joe

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2003, 07:03:17 AM »
Out of the box both guns shoot equally well for most people. The NEF has a button on top to release the barrel while the TC uses a bottom lever. The TC also gives you the ability to use it as a handgun. The TC also alows use of different barrel lengths 16 1/2 to 26.

The NEFs are good quality hunting guns.

Offline Sixgun

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2003, 11:53:56 AM »
Just my oponion here.

I have 2 NEFs and no Encores.  I do have 2 Contender frames with two 10 inch 22 match barrels, one 10 inch 357 max, and one 14 inch 30-30 barrel.

If NEF made handguns I would be looking into them because even though the fit and finish is not as nice, the accuracy is there and if I wanted a piece of art I would buy a picture.  I use my guns and they get dinged.  

I bought my first NEF at a paun shop for $65.  It was a 30-30.  My kids loved it and several shot their first deer with it.  I got my second one for about $200 from a gun store.  It is a 243.  I got both of these guns for about 265 bucks.  If I had bought both new I would have about 400 bucks tied up in them.

I just got a steel on a used Contender frame with a 10inch 22 match barrel.  It was $300.  My first frame cost me $225 used and I got a new 10inch 22 match barrel for it for $200.  So my 2 contenders cost me $725 dollars.

Yes, I got 2 extra barrels for the contenders.  The 357 max cost $150 used and the 30-30 cost $135 new.  For the price of them I could have almost got two new NEF rifles, not just barrels.  

Don't get me wrong, I llike my contenders.  The big BUT is that I use my contenders for silhouette shooting and they are the best that I can afford for that game.  My suggestions is if you are just getting a single shot rifle to hunt and plink with, get the NEF and don't look back. If you get the desire for a different barrel, just buy a new rifle for
$200 bucks.  That is about what a new barrel for the encore would cost.

Sisgun
You can only hit the target if the barrel is pointed in the right direction when the bullet leaves the barrel.

Offline quicksdraw45

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2003, 02:00:51 PM »
I own a encore rifle , NEF rifle and a contender pistol .
 You need to visit the Nef Boards and hear the tails of Woe that go on over there. They are very sensitive to having a very clean dry chamber , the butstock very tight and the forend free floated . and have some problems with extraction that are pretty easy to correct.
I have a .223, 30-06 ,45-70 and a 12 ga barrel for the NEF
The best i can do with the .223 is 1 1/4 inch 5 shots @ 100 yards
I have only shot 1 box from each the 30-06 and 45-70 barrel and the gun was at the factory for 14 weeks for the extra barrels.
My Contender with a 14 inch .223 barrel will shoot MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yards . I have a 7 tcu barrel that will do the same , I have two more barrels to work on . I get my extra barrels from eds contender in 3 days for about twice the price of a NEF barrel.
My encore in .223 Has shot 5 shot groups of 3/8 at 100 yards and consitanly shoots 5/8 groups without any modifications
I would say it depends very much on what you can afford ,What it is going to be used for .
All rifles are different , I have heard some stories of great accuracy from the NEF .
Are you interested in a NEF with 4 barrels ?? I have one I will sell you for $300 and ship to your ffl and you pay the freight .

Offline Sean

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2003, 02:08:09 PM »
As has been stated the NEF's need as much or more work (I own both). If you could be happy with the very limited caliber selection of the NEF then go for it. I like some of the odd ball rounds so I have an Encore to expiriment with. Sean

Offline Bullseye

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2003, 06:08:20 PM »
I have an Encore ML along with 2 of my hunting friends.  Two of use have at least one centerfire barrel for the Encores.  I also have Contenders and 9 barrels and have sold about 6 others.  All of these Encores and Contenders have always shot good without floating the barrels or doing any of the other tricks I read so much about.  They might not shoot to benchrest standards, but we hunt, not shoot benchrest.  Out of all my Contender barrels I have had one that needed work because of accuracy, not a bad average.

To answer you Encore questions specifically, the 3 muzzleloaders that I am familiar with will shoot 5 shot groups at 50 yards with one ragged hole.  I shoot mine at 100yds but do not have a scope anymore and get about a 2" group.  One of my friends gets better than that at 100yds with a scope and the other has never shot 100yds.  None of these guns has had any vodoo tricks done to them.

I know these are only 4 guns and maybe we are just lucky.  I also think that people read about the vodoo tricks and automatically think they must be done.  There are many happy Encore ML shooters out there that have no idea what floating the barrel means, they just know there Encore shoots good.

I think the Encore is a better made gun than the NEF, but is quite pricey in comparison.  I do know that I can call Ed and get a new barrel in 2 days and am ready to go shoot it.  Can't do that with the NEF.

Good luck with your decision.

Offline RandyWakeman

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Re: TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2003, 10:47:36 PM »
Quote from: fortress49
Does the Encore really need a lot of aftermarket "magic" to get it to be accurate and reliable?  
Matt


Mine absolutely did not!

Offline Greyfox

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2003, 01:52:37 AM »
It is possible that you do want a NEF and not a TC. It really depends on your uses and your standards. As has already been said, you can't make a handgun out of an NEF. That's one thing to consider.

Next, is the fact that hardly anything, out of the box, will shoot one-hole groups. Not Remington, Savage, Winchester, TC, NEF, etc. I have one rifle that came close, a Cooper that cost more than double the price of an Encore. Everybodies guns need a little tweaking for best accuracy and the Encore is no exception. The thing is, many people, maybe most, don't need or want to go to the trouble to shoot 1/4" groups.  

I had an NEF and thought it was a POS, but lots of folks have no problem with them. One major difference is the trigger. I had to send the rifle back to the factory for their trigger job and even though it was free, it wasn't that much better when it got back. You can do the Encore yourself for the cost of a new spring and a little time. Mine break at just under 1lb.

As has already been pointed out, the TC guns have far more versatility and better resale. I wouldn't hold it against them that they, like all rifles, need some adjustments to get the most out of them. If you just want something that goes "bang", you may want to go the cheaper route.      

Rick

Offline Underclocked

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2003, 02:28:49 AM »
My 209x45 is one of the most finicky rifles I've ever owned.  On the replacement barrel from T/C now and doing much better with grouping but still seems a bit inconsistent.  The first .45 wouldn't group anything I tried, and I tried a bunch!  

Have yet to shoot the 209x50 that's been sitting in my gun cabinet for months but would expect it to be far easier to cope with based upon reports from numerous other owners.  Both rifles have excellent triggers thanks to a factory rework on one and Bellm springs on both.

My recently acquired SS Huntsman came with a superb trigger - I was honestly shocked by how good and how consistent that trigger is.  The hammer on the Huntsman still looks like it belongs on something you might use to drive nails.  The rifle is smaller but it is comfortable to shoot even with my large frame.  The Hunstman ramrod is an easily broken, telescopic affair but the Encore muzzleloader comes with a ramrod that can be a real pain if loading tight sabots.  The sights on the Huntsman are of synthetic and on the delicate side, but work well if reasonable caution is exercised (based on reports from other owners, my iron sights always are the first things removed - can't use 'em).  

One place in particular where the Encore takes a strong lead is the design of the breech plug - as good as it gets IMHO for 209 rifles.  The Huntsman of course uses an orange primer carrier which has both its positive and negatives but I would rather see a more Encorish breech plug and eliminate the plastic.  A plus for the Huntsman primer carrier as compared to the Knight disc is the Huntsman carriers have frequently provided over 100 shots on a single carrier (again, from others' input).  They are durable.   The removal of the breech plug and removal tool provided for the Huntsman is also inferior to the Encore.    The tool provided by H&R/NEF leaves a LOT to be desired.   As a result of the plug design and cut in the barrel for the carrier tab, the Huntsman blowback is considerable while the Encore has nearly none.

Both designs offer a bit of a challenge in selecting the right scope/mount configuration but the Huntsman hi-rise hammer makes the process far more restrictive.  

Lockup of the barrel to action seems equally solid for both rifles although the Encore design would seemingly excel in that regard.  The barrels on both the SS Encore and the Huntsman look as though they might have came from the same factory.  The Huntsman uses a slightly coned crown (which I prefer) while the Encore uses T/C's QLA which I find to be of questionable worth.

I was able to achieve a 1+3/8" 100 yard group with the Huntsman after trying only a few load combinations.  The little rifle is accurate.

Given all factors as I see them, the Huntsman represents tremendous value for the person willing to overcome a few obstacles.  The Encore IS the superior rifle, but that superiority is likely not matched by the price differential.

The standard Huntsman muzzleloader is built upon the SB1 action.  To achieve better barrel interchange options, one should buy an NEF based upon the SB2 action.  Buying the standard Huntsman expecting to later add a .308 barrel will lead to serious disappointment.  To my knowledge, the only additional barrel that is allowed to be fitted to the Huntsman SB1  (by the factory) is a shotgun barrel.

I would recommend either rifle. For someone that wants the advantages of a reasonably well-made breakopen rifle on a budget, the Huntsman is surely the right choice.  :D
WHUT?

Offline DES

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2003, 04:39:51 AM »
I own both, and "ya get what ya pay for"!  :wink: The NEF is a decent firearm for the money though. Like already mentioned, if you want spooked go read the NEF forums.   :eek:

Offline Underclocked

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2003, 03:10:25 AM »
Des, you are likely correct but I've read no such spooky tales on the muzzleloader forum there.  I look at things only from the muzzleloader perspective so my view is admittedly limited.  Have yet to catch the Encore barrel addiction that many here have (can't afford it!!).  I'm not much into centerfire shooting these days so all the above posts (from those that are) are probably more relevant to fortress' questions.

The only barrels I might go for would be one of those .22LR someone has mentioned here and a White muzzleloader barrel if one was made for the Encore.  If I had to send the NEF back to the factory for long periods to get a barrel fitted, I would probably be less fond of the little rifle.   If barrel interchange is a major concern, go with the Encore for sure.
WHUT?

Offline Sixgun

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2003, 03:18:44 AM »
What I don't understand is if you are willing to shell out
$200 + for an encore barrel and are concerned about the time it takes to get NEF to install a new barrel, why not just buy a new complete NEF rifle and skip the barrel changing.  You can get any of the NEF rifles for about the same price as a new encore barrel and you don't have to change barrels.  Maybe some get a kick out of changing barrels, I get a kick out of shooting them.

Sixgun
You can only hit the target if the barrel is pointed in the right direction when the bullet leaves the barrel.

Offline randycarter

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2003, 05:14:24 AM »
just my experiance here.

i own an encore and have now for over two years they are the most enjoyable rifle i have ever owned and the list is long believeme.  some of the more notabel rifles i sold off after getting this encore were a custom shop remington rifle and a custom built 308 ona mauser action.  why you ask well its simple i don't bench anymore and all i have time for is hunting and when i hunt i have a firm belief and i believe all others on this forum would agree, "One shot one kill"  if you need to have more than one shot then practice more.  anyway to your question i have not personally owned a nef but i have had a harrington and richards which is the same rifle except the stocks are of better quality in my opinion.  i do know that the h&r shot extremely well for the 240 i paid for it and in fact my father nowshoots it for deer hunting and it continues to serve him well but he does like my encore better.  in fact today i just set up a 15 inch 308 with muzzlebreak in pistol configuration and red dot sight and going to shoot it after i get off of here i also own a muzzloader in 50 caliber 300 win mag had a 22-250 bull 30-06 standard 24 inch taper and considering a shotgun.  now you tell me does nef have those available well some maybe.   BUT here are some differences  if you want a muzzleloader or shotgun barrel for your nef forget it can't be done frams are not the same like an encore they are not as strong and therefore you will then have to have two of course that would be about he same cost as an encore so you decide there, then on the second diff.  time i can take my barrel off go to the local shooting range or store see a barrel buy it put it on mount a scope and i am shooting probably in less than 20 minutes taking time oto loctite and tighten up all the screws.  now how long does the nef take?  
so in my opinion which is just mine the encore maybe pricey but hands down a winner here one these facts and oh by the way here are my accuracy numbers with no mods to barrels other than a muzzle break on the 308 pistol  -  50 call muz.  100 yards .75 inch 3 shot   -  300 win mag  100 yards .433 3 shot   -  22-250 bull  100 yards  .520  -   30-06 standard   100 yards  .882 -  .308 pistol  "let you know after while"  and if you don't believe me ask the other gys how theirs shoot or come on down and  we can do a bench session at the rifle range beleive me the encore is the only way to go for the best single shot with out a budget  

good luck to you and have fun shooting whatever you get

randy

Offline agdexter

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Encore vs. NEF
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2003, 08:39:46 AM »
I have had an T/C Encore in stainless steel for three years. I love it. You couldn't blow it out of my hands with dynamite. I have the 209X50, .223 and the 30-06 barrels. Everyone shot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards out of the box. Much better than I will ever need for my hunting. Never had a lick of problems with any part of it. You definately get what you pay for. The workmanship is excellent and I can switch barrels with ease, without any change in the point of impact. Go for the Encore. Its more expensive, because it is built better. They can't build them fast enough to keep up with the demand.
It only hurts for a minute

Offline quicksdraw45

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2003, 01:01:12 PM »
As far as buying a new rifle every time you want another caliber for your nef -
Barrel is $75
A new gun is $200
my NEF with with 4 barrels cost me $385 .

Offline onesonek

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2003, 03:57:12 PM »
I wasn't, but then again. :wink:  First, rationally, you got to compare. Whose going to buy a 200 dollar rifle and whine about accuracy. Don't get me wrong, my brother has two NEF's, and is happy. He don't inter-change barrels.  You take an Encore ($500+),you'll hear complaint's.  Out of 6 barrel's, I had one that wouldn't shoot the way I expected. I sent to the T/C custom, and it came back, and did what I asked of it. I don't know that much about NEF's, but if you have to send them back for (mating). Well I'd think about that twice also. One other thing, how many custom barrel makers (do NEF barrels). Makes you WONDER. :D

Offline DES

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2003, 05:13:34 PM »
UC,

The main complaints I've read (and I agree 100%) about the NEF muzzleloader is:

1. The flimsy telescoping ramrod
2. The cheapo plastic sights
3. The difficult-to-use breech plug tool.

On mine, the threads for the breech plug are not fully machined for the last couple of turns, so I don't get that solid "bottomed-out" feeling like on my Encore.

I have not read any complaints about the accuracy, and while mine will not outshoot my Encore, it comes close!

Offline RandyWakeman

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2003, 04:07:35 PM »
Quote from: DES
UC,

The main complaints I've read (and I agree 100%) about the NEF muzzleloader is:

1. The flimsy telescoping ramrod
2. The cheapo plastic sights
3. The difficult-to-use breech plug tool.



That's the basic enchilada. Ramrod is no reason to buy a gun (or not), plastic sights are moot if scoped and can be upgrade.

That seems to leave a breech plug tool left on a gun that costs less than "some tennis shoes," and can kill a moose. Not bad.

Offline DLT1

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TC Encore vs NEF ????
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2003, 09:35:13 AM »
Thanks to all that post here......

Its nice to read some intelligent opinions without all the  :twisted: and BS associated with some forums.

I rarely jump into anything without some investigation first. I've been  :shock: the Encore for a long while, (1 1/2 yrs)

Just ordered my first Encore in 209x50....Can't wait 'til it arrives...I'll be back for some advice soon...

DLT1