Author Topic: new vanguard (Read 2414 times)

mjbgalt · « **on:** October 04, 2009, 04:15:43 PM »

i bought a CZ 550, which refuses to shoot no matter what i feed it.

i am also stepping up a bit from the .243 to the .25-06.

i am ordering a vanguard tomorrow morning to replace the dastardly CZ and it's attitude

i will let you all know how it goes. i have a bushnell legand 2-7x33 ready for it.

-Matt

Brithunter · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2009, 11:40:36 AM »

Hmmm are you going to mess with this one before actually shooting it? I recall you messed with the barrel channel on the CZ before shooting it.

Meanwhile I wish you luck wiht your purchase and really do hope it shoots well for you

.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2009, 01:24:52 PM »

i free floated and bedded it. which i do to all my rifles and have had exactly two NOT shoot for me. two out of dozens.

and yes i will probably be floating and bedding this one as well.

i will shoot it first of course.

me working on my guns is not "messing with" them. i know what i am doing and i am good at it.

why do you care either way? just enjoying antagonizing me?

i can take it

Brithunter · « **Reply #3 on:** October 08, 2009, 03:11:09 AM »

Nope but your post inferred that CZ's rifles are inaccurate

A fact that both you and I know is not true. There might be the occasional one which is a lemon and slips through but from what I have read CZ USA seems to take pride in sorting these out

Of course that was not an option left over to you as you had invalidated any warranty by your improvements..

You also champion " messing with a rifle" before actually shooting them for accuracy and yes it is messing with them. I wish I had £1 for every rifle that I have seen that had been messed with yet only shot as well as it had done before the "improvements" quite a few shot a lot worse. They of course were de-cried as poor rifles. The thought that the "skilled improver" had actually messed it up and caused the problem never entered their closed minds

.

Quote

why do you care either way? just enjoying antagonizing me?

I care because some who read things on the Web believe every word and take it as gospel which we both know it's not. Just becasue it's on the WEB doesn't mean it's true or right

. And no I am not trying to antaognize you

sorry that you feel that way. I have read many of your posts which were not only interesting but helpful so someone including me

.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #4 on:** October 08, 2009, 03:29:07 PM »

i never inferred that cz rifles were inaccurate. in fact everything i have heard about them is that they are very accurate. mine, however, in this case, was not. and bedding and free floating is not the problem.

i have built my own rifles, btw. they shoot VERY small groups. i am not the Bubba wanna be gunsmith, i know how to free float and bed and blue and do quite a bit more.

i believe i have a bad crown on this rifle...i choose not to spend money getting it fixed as i believe a rifle should shoot without me pouring money into it.

and yes there are many people who hacksaw and glue and do horrible things to rifles and blame the rifles...i however am not one of those people. once again, i floated it only because the barrel was bearing very hard on one side of the stock and not touching the other side at all.

cz can make mistakes, so can every other maker.

don't get too preachy about cz's....i might have to call you the british swampy. lol

-Matt

mjbgalt · « **Reply #5 on:** October 08, 2009, 03:55:53 PM »

now can i talk about weatherbys, here on the weatherby forum?

Brithunter · « **Reply #6 on:** October 08, 2009, 10:56:28 PM »

Hmmm that's a real question that is

as do Weatherby actually make anything? The Vanguard is a Japanese Howa and the much vaunted MkV's are made now in the US but not by Weatherby but some US defence contractor

. Oh well if you had tried the CZ as it was they CZ USA would ahve sorted the crown out for you

.

hunt-m-up · « **Reply #7 on:** October 09, 2009, 06:10:59 AM »

I have two Vanguards in very "normal" calibers, .270 and .308, and have my eye on one in the proprietary .300WBY. The .270 wears a B&C Stock and Timney trigger. The 308 is newer and has a better, more adjustable trigger, but it still may get a Timney. I like the 3 position safety you get with the Timney. It has a spare stock camoed up to shoot coyotes with 110 grnrs.
They are heavy, which makes them seem more substantial in today's world of lightweight, tinkertoy manufacturing. They are made by the Japanese firm Howa, but are nicer in fit and finish than the Howas. Not sure why people want to knock the Japanese manufacturers, who frankly have done a better job in most industries in the last 50 years than the US and Europeans have(with our money of course). Some say the Vanguards shoot better with forend pressure. Mine shoot to 1-1.5" with factory ammo and I'm by no means a marksman.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #8 on:** October 10, 2009, 07:13:56 AM »

picked up the vanguard today. odd, this one did not come with a target, and the bolt shroud is now some kind of coated aluminum, used to be steel.

the magazine follower used to be aluminum and is now plastic.

i don't mind it too much but i hate to see a gunmaker cheapen the looks of their gun. i am sure function is no different.

cleaned it up, oiled it, mounted and boresighted a scope. going to the range in a bit to try it out.

i will post my results.

-Matt

mjbgalt · « **Reply #9 on:** October 10, 2009, 03:09:41 PM »

got to the range and they were having a clays shoot.

try again tomorrow.

-matt

mrcooper · « **Reply #10 on:** October 10, 2009, 06:56:48 PM »

I have a lot in common with some of the posters about CZ I had one in 308 that could only do one and a half inch at 100 yards, sold it told the new owner about the acc problem before he bought it, the other one, I still have ran in to a deal for a 17 HMR had to put a trigger kit in it and glass the action and bend the follower on the Mag, the last time at the range I was shooting 340 yards at a steel plate and hitting it every time, don't know the size of the plate.
I also have a Vanguard 300 weatherby mag, out of the box it shot 1 and a half inch gropes at 100 yards, am tinkering with the loads now I'm sure I can get them touching, the only bad thing about the vanguard is the terrible trigger. but for the price it's a great rifle.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2009, 02:20:57 AM »

i have bought 3 in the last year or two...the triggers have been fixed. in fact, they're one of the only factory rifles i would NOT tinker with the trigger, as they adjust it pretty much like i like it.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2009, 12:32:04 PM »

alrighty, tried 75 grain hollowpoints today with 47 and 47.5 grains of varget. 47.5 tightened up considerably. did not load any more the other night because i didn't think i would be able to stay at the range long. now i guess i could have.

going to load the 47.5 again tonight, along with 48 and 48.5. max is, i think, 49.7.

i am going to stay away from max but still try to find an accurate load. the trigger was very crisp and it shot very well.

i have to say, it fed smoother than i remember. i think the plastic follower wasn't a bad idea if so. the ammo seems to squirt right into the chamber with little effort.

nice to get a gun that is ready to go out of the box, no fixing, changing, adjusting, new trigger, free floating, bedding, etc necessary.

generic statement, brit. don't jump on me.

-Matt

huntwithme2 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2009, 03:04:39 PM »

i have the MOA model. shoots perfect .55 inches at 100 yards with a 110 accubond. the only thing i don't care for is the weight. that 7 3/4 pounds plus scope is heavy for my age plus i am left handed. is there anything you can do to lessen the weight some?

mjbgalt · « **Reply #14 on:** October 11, 2009, 03:13:13 PM »

i suppose you could pay a gunsmith to flute the barrel, or cut a couple inches off of it.

they can flute the bolt more and drill out the bolt handle.

no matter how you do it though, its not a lightweight rifle design.

i don't mind it, since it soaks up recoil and allows me to steady the rifle quicker.

-Matt

mjbgalt · « **Reply #15 on:** October 11, 2009, 03:14:11 PM »

i know they sell the MOA model...

but i am on my 5th vanguard now and none were the MOA model and all have shot under an inch by quite a bit, with loads they liked.

-Matt

Brithunter · « **Reply #16 on:** October 11, 2009, 10:47:46 PM »

Quote

nice to get a gun that is ready to go out of the box, no fixing, changing, adjusting, new trigger, free floating, bedding, etc necessary.

generic statement, brit. don't jump on me.

actually I am happy for you and I am very glad your happy with your new rifle and it might surprise you that I have shot a couple of .223 Vanguards. Of course that was quite a few years ago now. Both shot accurately but neither of them inspired me to want one.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #17 on:** October 13, 2009, 01:41:11 PM »

ok tried 47.5 and 48 grains today. 48 grains opens up again, so it looks like 47.5 is the right one.

it shot 3 shot groups of right around .65" of an inch, once you remove the .257" from it, that's respectable at 50 yards for working up a load.

i also had my eyes dilated today at the eye docs (the reason i had a half day off and time to shoot) so i suppose i was not at my best either.

still like the rifle. i think from now on when i "need" a rifle i am going to reach for a vanguard. they have never let me down, un like remington, ruger, howa, and cz.

yes i know this action is made by howa. cutting off the sarcasm before it gets to me.

Brithunter · « **Reply #18 on:** October 13, 2009, 10:15:45 PM »

Hmmmm mjbgalt,

Quote

yes i know this action is made by howa. cutting off the sarcasm before it gets to me.

Well seing as how Weatherby don't make anything except profits it seems

Howa's have a good reputation of their own and if I was ever going to go down that road it would be a Howa as why pay Weatherby

. There is I giy in the club who has Howa I believe although his has a wood stock and a nice piece of wood too

it's a .270. Winchester of course.

Quote

still like the rifle. i think from now on when i "need" a rifle i am going to reach for a vanguard. they have never let me down, un like remington, ruger, howa, and cz.

Errr sorry this one loses me

as Howa made you re-badged rifle so how come THEY let you down?

I also hope your not having eye probs

degrading eyesight is the real pits

My best wishes are with you.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #19 on:** October 14, 2009, 12:57:58 AM »

howa let me down because when i bought an actual howa, the bedding in the factory stock was so badly done that it shot patterns, not groups. that one left my house asap.

i buy the vanguards because theyre about $50 LESS than a howa is now. they are running a $399 special on vanguards, howas are $449 or so.

my eyes turned out to be just fine. i have to have them checked every year because i got diagnosed with diabetes this summer.

-Matt

Brithunter · « **Reply #20 on:** October 14, 2009, 05:03:38 AM »

Ahhh I understand now as Mother has type 2. Take care there.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2009, 10:34:27 AM »

ok shot with 75 grain sierras, not bad.

tried the 87 grain tnt speers, AWESOME!

That's the load i am going with.

the rings worked loose while shooting, they are burris, nice rings but apparently not good at staying put. i have never had this issue before, ever. i swapped them over to my .22-250, and put leupolds on this one. problem solved.

Brithunter · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2009, 01:01:26 PM »

Glad to hear it's going well. Hmmm I don't know the Burris rings/mounts but Leupolds have a very good reputation so I doubt there will any more movement

.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2009, 06:28:04 PM »

well they held the scope ok. but the part that slides into the bases has one screw on the side that pulls both sides together, and squeezes them to the bases.

no matter how tight i turned them, they wiggled loose under the "terrific" recoil of the .25-06 lol...

so they're on the .22-250 now.

the leupolds cost 1/3 what the burris did. going to be buying those from now on.

Brithunter · « **Reply #24 on:** October 31, 2009, 10:57:43 PM »

The only Leupold mounts I have are these lever op QR ones :-

They work now but were awful to fit as the bases did not fit the profile of the action and had to be "fitted" to it something I have not had to do before with other makes. The bases are also very high and make secondary use of the iron sights impossible so despite theri return to zero propeties I'll not be using this type of mount again.

Hmmm it seems that I don't have any photos on the 1100 De Luxe P-H since I changed the mounts from the P-H alloy blocks to Apel roll offs which are all steel but cost best part of 3x at much as the Leupolds. I picked up my first set cheap as no one wanted then s they are for a BSA repetier CF2. LOL ....... of course they would also fit a Rem 700 but as it didn't say so on the box and the shop had them sitting on the shelf for several years

I paid about 1/3 of the current price. Being for a 30mm scope didn't help sell them either. I brought a set of 1" rings and used them on a 7x57 BSA Cf2 then later got a set of bases and used the 30mm rings on the Tasco Titan 3-9x42 scope on the P-H 30-06 and althoug Apel calls them roll of or fixed they do return to zero and are rock solid.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #25 on:** November 01, 2009, 02:06:21 AM »

the ones i am talking about are triangular in shape and they hold one side of the scope and the other...

hard to explain but the rings don't come apart horizontally, but vertically.

each side is separate and you cinch them together when the scope is in place.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=188575

Brithunter · « **Reply #26 on:** November 04, 2009, 11:19:07 PM »

Ahh yes I had a set marked Savage onece and didn't like them. They are fiddly to set up and definately not QR

however they do seem to hold in place. Nikko Sterling are also supplying a similar design with soem of their scopes. I can only assume they are cheaper to make if Nikko are supplying them

I would guess the extrusion requires no or minimal machining apart for drilling and tapping.

mjbgalt · « **Reply #27 on:** November 05, 2009, 01:19:55 AM »

i have had the savage and nikko ones too.

these are much lighter and MUCH stronger.