How much does planing affect accuracy?

[kernman]

I started archery about a year and a half ago. So I realize this is a broad topic, so I hope this question is not too vague.

I'm told that fixed broadheads create planing. All things being equal, how much a factor is this when hunting? Until now I have only used field points for practice. I have a 40-pound takedown recurve, with carbon arrows (Goldtip 500s), and plastic vanes. On a good day I can hit 8- to 10-inch groups at 25 yards.

I hunt blacktails, and as yet have not had a good shot. But I would keep it to within 25 yards.

My archery shop guy says mechanical broadheads such as Spitfires fly to the same point of impact as field points. He says I should use them if I want to avoid planing.

Could I adjust to this by practicing with Muzzy practice blades, to get used to planing? I hope this is enough information...
 

[Sweet 6.5]

I don't think you will have a problem with your bow.
A 40 pound recurve will not be fast enough for
you to worry about it.

[ronbow]

Current wisdom says not, NOT to use mechanicals with a 40 lb. bow. Are you actually hunting with a 40 lb. bow ? I wouldn't think that would be enough oomph for a deer sized animal. According to current wisdom, mechanicals need speed to penetrate and open properly.

[JeffG]

Ditto here.  Lower  poundage or slower, traditional bows need cut on contact broadheads. It has been my experience that faster coompound bows run into planing problems. It might be good advice to stick with two blade broadheads with a recurve.

[theoldarcher]

First: I would dump the plastic vanes for a 40# recurve.  Feathers will be much more forgiving for you and make a more smooth flight off the riser shelf. 

Second: Don't think for one minute a 40# recurve will not kill deer.  That poundage had taken bear, deer, elk, and two wild hogs as well as caribou to my knowledge (firends aw well as me, personally).  Your bow is very well suited for whitetail.

Third: It is true that some two-bladed (fixed) broad heads might cause your arrows to wind plane, but you can rotate the fletch in relationship to the broad head to compensate for that or go to a head like a Snuffer, Woodsmen, or a Muzzy.  The three-blade configuration will work well.

Fourth: Absolutely do not pay any attention to some guy wanting to sell you mechanicals.  Pick up a current issue of Traditional Bowhunter Magazine and read Dr. Ashby's (spelling??) report on mechanical broad heads.  It is an eye opener, regardless of what you see with the 'big boys' ads on their hunting TV shows.

I get tickled at guys who think 40# bows, two-bladed broadheads, and no superfilious junk won't kill deer.  Over history, many, many rail car loads of deer have been killed with bows and arrows in this category.

Now that said: the greater responsibility is on your shoulders.  Get your arrows modified with feather fletch right away (the Goldtips are fine--I use them for my bows from 40# to 60#).  Mount your broad heads to three and practice at hunting distances.  If you find wind planing, move the broadhead slightly so the blade plane shifts and try again.  This is easily done with a small torch--gently warming up the broad head insert holding with pliars, and rotating the insert slightly with pliars, cool, re-install in the arrow and shoot.  Repeat until smooth sailing.      Once you find the right orientation of blade to fletch, set all remaining arrows to that configuration.  Next: practice until you are blue in the face at all angles--from a tree stand in you back yard; off a hill side or ditch bank; from your knees; sitting in a ground blind; standing and shooting around obsticles; etc.  Finally: when it's time to hit the woods, make sure your broad heads are shaving sharp, all the way to the cut-on-impact tip.  Lastly: make sure you pick a spot, even a single hair on the deer, in the vitals; come to full draw; and execute a smooth release. 

Been doing this for about 57 years now, all with longbows, recurves, and self bows.  It IS addictive!! 

Best of luck.  If I can be of help, let me know.

Arch

[kernman]

Thank you all for your replies.

I have heard different opinions whether mechanicals will open reliably with "traditional" bows. There is no doubt in my mind that a 40-pound bow is adequate all things being equal.

I missed my straw bale once and hit a pressed lumber 4 x 4, which frames my wood shed. The field point went in 1/2 inch. Try doing that using your own power. I tried; I could barely get it to penetrate at all.

Old Archer,

Is there a cheaper option other than changing the fletching on all my arrows? What if I just bought some Muzzies and tried them with my current setup. They cost half the price of Spitfires; I could trash 3 blades to practice, or use practice blades.


Maybe I would discover that they shoot to the same point of impact as my field points?

I read on one of these posts that they tried some broadheads that shot a foot to the right of their field points? Does that sound right?

Also, are you saying that three blade heads plane less than two blades? 

[a45gunslinger]

are you using an arrow rest?? or shooting off of the shelf?? If you have a rest then the plastic should be ok as long as your not getting any contact. if of the shelf you definitely need to get your arrows re-fletched with feathers.. a broadhead that i have used that flies exceptionally well is a magnus stinger. 100 grns for my compound and 125grns for my recurve and longbow - kevin

[theoldarcher]

gunslinger is right: shooting off the shelf was what I assumed, and for that feathers are better than vanes; however, if you have a rest attached to your side plate area, then the vanes may do just fine. 

I have killed several deer with 125 grain Muzzy heads.  A practice head comes with each pack, so you can practice and save the sharp blades for your actual hunt.  The hunting blades in the heads should fly just like the practice blades in the heads.  By the way, a friend of mine shot a black bear with Muzzys from a 42# recurve that sent the arrow through the bear and into a log on the otehr side.  Good heads... 

If broadheads are hitting further than a 1/2 inch or so from where your field points are hitting, something isn't right with the set up.  I have not seen the report you mention, but it takes time to tune your recurve or long bow to the arrows, heads, etc.  I have had to move nock points up or down slightly, rotate broadheads so they are, for lack of better and more technical terminology, not 'fighting' the fletching--for example, right now, getting ready for the October 1st opener here in MI, I am shooting some 2117 aluminum arrows cut 29 1/2 inches, with 5 1/2 inch three fletch and a snap nock modified by teeth      until the arrow drops from the string with a slight 'bounce' of the bow string.  The broadheads are from a bucket of old Snuffers I still have and decided to shoot this year.  They are fixed three blade and are 145 grain.  My bow is a 62" three piece recurve pulling about 51# at my draw length.  In order to get the arrows to hit with the field points, I have to rotate the head so the three blades fill in between the three fletch.  Does that make sense??  When I look down the arrow from the nock, I see six 'wings'.  It just works for this set up.  Yours will take a little work, but it is do-able and is part of the fun of preparation.

Best of luck!

Arch

[Empty Quiver]

Read through this fast but didn't see anyone mention that as long as you are spinning your arrows with a helical fletch there can be no planing. Just think about it, if that broadhead is always turning it won't be able to take off in a certain direction. The more likely scenario is that a broadhead will change the spine of your arrow, due to weight or length differences. Another possibility is that the head isn't centered on the shaft, spin test to assure that isn't a problem.

If you are buying commercially available arrows "pre-made" chances are they are not helical feather fletched. At best they will be offset fletched which beats the tar outa straight fletching. If you have those little three or four inch plastic fletches that is another place to look at.

Definitly subscribe to Traditional Bowhunter mag. You can learn more about the sport in one year than you even can wonder about right now. The traditional equipment all works together as a system, just like the modern all works together as a system. Mixing of the two is possible but you need to understand what you are asking the system to do.

Your new archery shop, and yes you need to find one, should have several stick bows for sale. A few dozen WOOD arrows fletched up with 5" FEATHERS is a good sign you are in the right place. They don't need to be dressed as Robinhood or have compounds hung in effigy with the cables all wraped up around sticks. If you tell them you are shooting a trad bow and they smile and get all misty you are in the right place for sure. Let these people guide you in the right direction.

[Casull]

If broadheads are hitting further than a 1/2 inch or so from where your field points are hitting, something isn't right with the set up.

How would you know that they are hitting 1/2 inch from the others.  I doubt ANYONE is shooting 1/2 inch or smaller groups (if they are, they aren't going to have any arrows left after a few shots).   

[fr3db3ar]

It looks like you've been given plenty of good advice.  I will say...I shoot a longbow off the shelf with feathers...and a recurve off a rest with vanes.  I use a 2 blade bear broadhead and have zero planing issues with either bow.  The biggest thing is shooting the proper spline for the poundage that you are shooting.  Good luck with your hunting this year.

[theoldarcher]

Casull: I don't know what kind of groups you shoot, but I like 'em real tight.  Normally you can eyeball where broadheads are hitting and compare those hits to field points.  The point, pun intended, is that any broadhead that is not hitting extremely close to your impact point with field tips is probably not set up right. 

Best of luck, Arch

[kernman]

to clarify, I am shooting off a drop rest, I think its called. Its a little black plastic rest about one inch above the shelf.

It makes sense that your broad head blades need to be properly aligned with your fletching.

All things being equal, is it true that the more blades you add, the more planing becomes a factor? Or is it the opposite: that additional blades stabilize arrow flight?


Old Archer,

Yes, I can picture what you mean by "six wings." Would it stand to reason, then that the blades of my Spitfire mechanicals would also need to line up with the fletching in my arrows?

It also makes sense that adding a broadhead does impact the spine, given that the overall length of the arrow increases. So how do I plan for this? In any case, it would seem that the shorter the broadhead length, the less it would impact spine issues.

Empty Quiver,

Yes it would be nice to find a traditional archery shop. My archery shop guy is into compounds, although he does own one recurve. He has lots of recurves for sale, and he gives lessons with recurves that he keeps for that purpose.

Where I live I have to drive one hour in any direction to get to an archery shop. I think maybe I will need to find a traditional archery club, but that also involves long drives. 


 
JeffG,

I figure my 40 pound recurve gets about 220 feet per second. So on general principal then, I would not need to worry about planing, with say, two blade broadheads? What about when you increase it to three blades. Does planing increase? I know that penetration is a factor here, given that more blades equal more resistance. 

[Casull]

Casull: I don't know what kind of groups you shoot, but I like 'em real tight.

If you can spot 1/2 inch of movement in your group, you have to be shooting each arrow into the one before it.  I know what you are talking about, but let's be reasonable with the examples.   

[fr3db3ar]

You better chronograph that thing.  My Black Widow LAG @ 54# shoots in the neighborhood of 165 fps with somewhere just over 500 gr of arrow.

[Casull]

You better chronograph that thing.  My Black Widow LAG @ 54# shoots in the neighborhood of 165 fps with somewhere just over 500 gr of arrow.

I was thinking the same thing. 

[kernman]

So 220 feet per second sounds too fast? I don't have a chronograph...