Rolling block *pictures added*

[patw]

I have a rolling block rife that needs a new barrel.  It is marked:

REMINGTON ILION NY USA
PAT MAY 3D NOV 15TH 1864 APRIL 17TH 1868
AUG 27TH 1867 NOV 7TH 1871

Other than a B on the left side of the receiver, I cannot see any other markings.

Can anyone tell me more about it.  It is a centerfire, BTW.  I  would like to know what calibers would be appropriate for that action.

[kwells2006]

what caliber is it?

From what i've seen, rimmed cartridges are popular in them.

[patw]

It was rebarreled at some time, so I have no idea of the original chambering.  It has a 30 cal barrel now, from a chamber casting it looks like Mauser length cartrige.  30X57???

[kwells2006]

i ahve no clue... maybe a  300 savage?

[kwells2006]

you know... some of those were in the 7x57 Mauser round... you may check that and see

[filmokentucky]

  These rifles were usually chambered for rimmed black powder cartridges such as the .45-70 and .50-70. A huge percentage of them were chambered in .43 Spanish and .43 Egyptian.

  If I were going to rebarrel, I'd go with one of the classic .45 or .50 caliber cartridges. Some target shooters  like the .40-65, too. This appears to be the earlier action, and I'd stick with the earlier cartridges rather than the later high pressure stuff.

[MSP Ret]

I have an original in a smokeless powder 7x57 Remington Rolling Block. I highly suggest checking the chamber cast and first determining what caliber it is. If you are concerned about getting it right (not a hard thing to do) check with a qualified gunsmith. You may have a fine .30 caliber shooter right now. Perhaps draw up a cartridge with the measurements and post it here. I am sure members here could identiy the current chambering....best of luck....<><.... 

30-30 Winchester, .30 Remington, or perhaps a 30-40 Krag? Rimmed or rimless cartridge? 

One more important question, why does it need a new barrel?....<><....

[filmokentucky]

The 7mm R.B.s came along late in the model's life. That appears to be an early black powder era action. A lot of the 7mms had a hand guard and there doesn't seem to be provision for one on this rifle. Most of these are found in .43 Spanish, .43 Reformado, and .43 Egyptian. The Egyptian rifles often have the worst barrels.

[torpedoman]

mine is a 32-20

[Antietamgw]

There are so many variations of "black powder" and "smokeless" actions, not to mention the parts guns and actions rebuilt by others from whatever parts were around, that you really kind of need to have a 'smith that knows Rolling Blocks take a look at it. Some quick indications of whether it's a smokeless action would be the extractor and the firing pin hole in the breech block. If the barrel were pulled you could tell for sure. There are differences in some parts between the "smokeless" and earlier "black powder" actions though many of the parts will interchange. Either action is great but for different uses. I've built a number of .38 thru .50 cal cartridge guns on the earlier actions. Best, IMHO though, is the 1897 and later actions in 7X57 and I like those with rotary extractors best. .30-40 Krag is an excellent choice for a small bore that shoots cast bullets very well and I enjoy shooting and hunting with it. 7X57 would be great as well but I think rimmed cases work better in Rolling Blocks than rimless. I set the barrel back on a friends 7X57 as the chamber was rough. The chamber was recut for 7X57 Rimmed and the extractor changed. He bought some expensive foreign brass but it can be formed pretty easy from .444 Marlin. Might be a tad short, I just don't recall. Be aware that there seem to be some differences is chamber size between SAAMI specs and what you might encounter in an original 7X57 chamber. Full power loads and full length sizing will likely lead to short brass life and possibly some excitement and head (case, hopefully ) seperations. There have been some very good articles written on this over the years. I recall an excellent one on cast bullets in the 7X57 Rolling Block - Campbell was the author if I recall and I think it was in Precision Shooting or The Accurate Rifle.  There is some good Rolling Block general and gunsmithing info in DeHass book on Single Shot Actions and the NRA Gunsmithing Guide. I imagine volumes could be written on the Rolling Block and gunsmithing it. You could probably spend alot of time just tracking down all the info on the web on shooting and building Rollies. A worthwhile venture. 'Course if yours is in good shape, find out what it's chambered for with a chamber cast and get to shootin' !

[Antietamgw]

It was rebarreled at some time, so I have no idea of the original chambering.  It has a 30 cal barrel now, from a chamber casting it looks like Mauser length cartrige.  30X57???

Maybe 7.65 Arg if it's a rimless cartridge.

[filmokentucky]

Any of these early smokeless military rounds are vastly underated today. The old Argentinian round is an excellent choice, as accurate and powerful as anyone is ever likely to need.

[patw]

I sent the pictures to a gunsmith who specializes in RB, and he said it is a New York State 50-70 or a Navy 50-45.  It is definitely a black powder model from the firing pin.  It has the decocking system when the breech is opened.  The present barrel was from an '03 according to a local gunsmith.  I will have to look for the cast of the chamber, but if I remember right it was Mauser dimensions, but 30 cal.  I tried to make the brass from a .444 and actually fired it once.  The fired round measured out to a 7.62x57, but this was a year or more ago, so I may not remember correctly.  The cartridge would not eject, so I got discouraged and I went on to other projects.  Now I want to play with this again.  Maybe the extractor could be altered?  If it would extract the shell, I would have no problem making brass and shooting cast bullets in it.  It sure would be cheaper than rebarreling.

[torpedoman]

the 8.15x46r was a real popular schutzen round

[Jay, Tx]

I've got one just like it, although that one seems to be in much better shape than mine. Mine is a 50-70gvt caliber. All original, the bore looks like a freshly graded gravel road. Cool old guns. Never fired mine. I inherited it from my dad. He did order some ammo for it years ago and shot the rifle a few times, but I still haven't nutted up and squeezed the trigger on it.

Never knew there were so many different caliber options. Learning more and more about this rifle all the time.



Jay

PS, I did some checking many years ago on this rifle. Mine has a "rack number" branded into the stock (barely legible now), meaning it was a military gun (or so I was told). Seems like I was told that number could tell a lot about the history of the rifle. Never pursued it further. I will some day though. Too many other projects now.

[patw]

I looked into it, thought about it and decided against it.  It would have cost $800 or more to rebarrel the action.  It would be fun, but for the same money I can buy a whole new gun.

As far as the chambering of the barrel on the rolling block now, I still have no idea.  Here is a picture of the cartridge, resized from a 444, with an '06 on the left and a 7x57 on the right.  The base is smaller than the 444 (abt .460 vs .471), so it is a pain to size.  Making brass for it is more trouble than it is worth, so I think the old gun will return to the back of the safe.



Edit: I went looking through cartridge dimensions and realized it might be 303 British.  I will try to get an empty case and see.

[coyotejoe]

Well that stumps me! The 30/40 Krag and 303 British both have a length from base to shoulder very close to that of the 7x57 whereas yours seems about midway between 7x57 and the 30/06. Could be a project that never got finished.  Maybe someone shortened the '03 barrel just enough to remove the funnel from the breech end and then never finished the chamber?