Pistol level 45-70 loads

[AtlLaw]

Since starting to work with my Handi in 45-120 my attitude toward my 45-70, also a Handi, has changed somewhat.  Shooting a 405 gr @ 2K I have barely scratched the surface of the 45-120's velocity (and recoil  ) potential and have no need to hot rod the 45-70.  So I want to go in the other direction.   

It seems that I have become perfectly satisfied to hunt Bambi this year with a 44 Mag or 45 Colt bullet at 1100 fps.  This is after listening to many of the experienced Pistolaros here.  And I chrono'd MSPret's favorite 45-70 deer load with a 350 Gr. bullet at around 1500 fps as I remember.

So I'm envisioning my Handi as a minimum recoil, 100 yd deer equivilent, walk-around rifle; I already have a carbine stock and peep sights.  For bullets I'd probably use the "to soft at 1800 fps" Speer HP or Hornady 325 gr TSX.

There have been some great threads lately on slow end 45-70 loads, and I'd like your thoughts and comments on the subject.  And especially, any ideas on what the 100 yd. terminal velocity should be with those bullets, at that range, to insure a quick, humane kill.  Given a rib cage shot of course... 

I know, I know.  Find a load that gives me a Thousand Ft. Lbs at 100 yds.     But I have never bought into that guideline.  'specially with big bullets!   

[stimpylu32]

Richard

Pick up one of the Lee 405g molds , cast some , lube them up and load over 12 to 15 grains of Unique . that should give you between 950 and 1100 FPS , more than enough for any of the WT that you could come across .

Recoil will be in the 410 shotgun range , I call it my sissy load but it works just too well to complain . 

stimpy

[Swampman]

IMO 40-45 grains of Varget under the Remington 405 or the Lee 459-405-HB is about perfect for everything in North America.  No recoil to speak of and it flattens them.

[stimpylu32]

But why use another 25 to 30 grains of powder just to add 300 FPS ? 

stimpy

[AtlLaw]

I thought of Unique and 2400 Stimpy and will surely give them a try.  MSP Ret's load was 28 gr. of 2400 as I remember.  I thought that was a popcorn load, but now I'm thinking even lighter!

The reason I selected the 300 gr. HP or 325 TSX, is that the correct designation?   The gummy tiped bullet...  , was two fold; expansion and less recoil.  I really got spoiled shooting my 45 Colt M-73 as far as NO recoil goes!     'course the Handi is lighter then the 73... 

[AtlLaw]

Swampy, I used Varget in my standard 45-70 load, albeit more then 40-45 gr.  It's good stuff, but even at that level I think it would be overkill, especially with the 405 gr. bullet.  I'll grant you that, within limits, the 405 at 1300 fps is plenty for No. America, but also more then I need for our itti-bitti So. Jawja White Tails!   

OH!  Thanks for the link!  Right on target!     I don't reallu understand why the obvious preference is for heavy bullets though.   

[stimpylu32]

Richard

You can go even lighter with the 405 , 8g of Trailboss with a cast bullet will put you at 700 FPS , not sure I'd try to push it out to 100 though , way too much drop at that range but under 75 yards it would have enough impact energy to down a deer .

stimpy

That would be a sneeze load . 

[quickdtoo]

The reason I selected the 300 gr. HP or 325 TSX, FTX is that the correct designation?   The gummy tiped bullet...  , was two fold; expansion and less recoil.  I really got spoiled shooting my 45 Colt M-73 as far as NO recoil goes!     'course the Handi is lighter then the 73... 

[Graybeard]

I'd not recommend trying to push a jacketed bullet out at only 700 fps either. Those velocities are best reserved for lead not jacketed bullets.

[stimpylu32]

Bill

I total agree about the jacketed bullet at those speeds , atleast in a rifle barrel , for that matter I never saw the need for one in a 45/70 anyhow . a big flat nosed cast bullet punching an almost 1/2" hole in something will surely ruin its day .

Besides , this gives him a reason to buy a new mold for his new casting hobby ! 

stimpy

[BBF]

I have one of those LEE 405 gr molds and get a good group with Blue Dot from them but every time I look at the meplat(?) of that bullet it seems very small. I got some 350 gr Magma[ bevel base :-(( ]  that are much larger in front but they shoot crap from my rifle.

[Swampman]

Swampy, I used Varget in my standard 45-70 load, albeit more then 40-45 gr.  It's good stuff, but even at that level I think it would be overkill, especially with the 405 gr. bullet.  I'll grant you that, within limits, the 405 at 1300 fps is plenty for No. America, but also more then I need for our itti-bitti So. Jawja White Tails!   

OH!  Thanks for the link!  Right on target!     I don't reallu understand why the obvious preference is for heavy bullets though.   

I've alwys found the 405-500 grain bullets to be more accurate in my guns.  They also retain velocity better IMO.