Author Topic: To leave air in a pump up or not?  (Read 3063 times)

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Offline His lordship.

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To leave air in a pump up or not?
« on: May 25, 2009, 04:16:45 AM »
My Benjamin 392 rifle owner's manual does not say to leave any air in it, Pyramid air guns and another member mentioned that it is good to leave one pump of air in it to keep the seals slightly stretched.  I figure that Benjamin (Crosman) is saying that due to lawyers talk, and any liability reasons.  I had a Crosman 2200 magnum pump up for 7 years and always kept it unloaded for air until I needed to use it, and the seals never acted up.

What do you guys do?

Thanks.

Offline S.S.

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2009, 03:35:21 PM »
I leave one pump in both of my blue streaks simply because Sheridan recommends it.
It is something to do with keeping moisture out . 
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Offline Autorim

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2009, 03:29:50 PM »
I have a Sheridan Blue Streak that is approximately 40 years old - still shoots just fine and I store it with one pump.

Offline Dillohide

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 10:48:01 AM »
I've got a Sheridan Blue Streak my dad gave me on my 9th birthday ... I'm 60 now. I've never left any air in it but always made sure the oil didn't dry out. Best I can tell it shoots as well as it did new. So either I'm real lucky or it doesn't matter if you leave a pump in or not.

Offline Dogshooter

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 05:24:47 PM »
Ditto on the one pump idea. That's what most manufacturers recommend. I have a "Benjamin Franklin" model 312 that I got when I was a kid and a Blue Streak that I bought in '96 and both work as good as a new one and I have always kept one pump in them.
Perception is everything. For instance, a crowded elevator smells different to a midget.

Offline His lordship.

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2009, 05:22:33 AM »
What is interesting about the Benjamin/Sheridan line of multi-pumps is how several members of this forum still have them from when they were a kid and are now around 60 years old.  While I just bought mine this Spring-09, I look over at it leaning against the wall and find it amazing that a pragmatic mechanical item like that could still perform for so many years.

Too bad other things like cars, power tools, etc. don't last that long.

Offline jamaldog87

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2009, 06:46:44 AM »
It is what i got for most airguns from daisy.com

You do not want to pump the gun prior to storing. 
You do want to make sure it is clean and oiled.
 
Lucretia
Customer Service
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jamaldog87@yahoo.com [mailto:jamaldog87@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 11:59 AM
To: Daisy Customer Service
Subject: seals


i have you 880 and i am going to put it in storage for a few  mouths. Should i leave 2 pumps in it to hold the seal?

from Crosman Customer Service Ticket Number: 070924120935WEB

Jamal,

We recommend storing your 2100 model without any air pumped in the chamber. When air is pumped into the gun, it puts stress on the seal. Overtime if the air isn't released, it will damage the seals.

Thank you,
Angel

I have hear from many people over the years that 1 pump is the right thing to do. I used the wroung oil on my 2200 crosman and it's gone. was made in 1975 and died in 2009. >:(
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Offline His lordship.

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2009, 06:09:47 AM »
Jamaldog...thanks for checking with two major makers of pellet rifles.  I keep forgetting to leave one pump in my Benjamin, after reading what they say there hopefully won't be a problem with me leaving it empty.  I used to have a Crossman 2200, while it did the job for 7 years on target and pest control, it progressively fell apart shortly after I bought it and I constantly had to push things back into place due to the cheapo plastic and pot metal construction.  The quality is just tinker toy on those, so I would not feel bad on it dying on you, I am amazed it lasted so long. :)

However, from the first day I bought my 2200 I followed the owners manual and only used "Pellgunoil", the seals were the only thing on that rifle that worked great. 

Offline ironglow

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2009, 10:39:42 AM »
 New to air here..I just ordered a Ruger Airhawk from airgundepot.. That of course is a barrel-break springer. Am I correct in assuming that it should not be left cocked ?
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Offline deerhunter

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2009, 05:49:34 PM »
Ironglow,

Definitely do NOT leave a spring air rifle cocked, and make sure that you NEVER dry fire it. 

They leave a single pump of air in a miltipump pnumatic only to keep the valve sealed, and possibly to keep moisture out of the cylinder.  Springers do not have this problem.  Leaving a springer cocked for a long period of time with weaken the spring.

Offline ironglow

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2009, 03:19:41 AM »
 Deerhunter;
  Thank you, I could easily have made the mistake of dry firing...
  Another question..or two,...I plan on cleaning the barrel with brake cleaner before using; then of course the barrel must be lightly lubed..using Rem-Oil, is that  OK ? ....What is this I heard about some type of  "Slick 50" treatment ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline deerhunter

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2009, 06:44:47 AM »
Before you do anything with the air rifle, I would put it away, and do some reading.  Go to Dr Beemans website, I think it is www.beemans.net, but do a web search and double check.  I cannot myself now, I am blocked from all those sites in work.  Also, a lot of his articles are also posted on the American Airguin website under the general information tab.

The articles you want to read are the ones about the storage and caring of airguns.  The types of power plants, and the proper ways to care for them.  Especially about the types of oils to use and to avoid.  A springer can actually detonate some oils in the chamber when you fire them, its called deiseling, and it can harm your airgun.

Go check out these sites, there are some very good articles that you should read before you use your air gun. 

And once you do, you will have you airgun the rest of your life if you are careful with it.

Good luck.

Offline deerhunter

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2009, 01:52:53 PM »
Here is beemans website:  http://www.beemans.net/

Here is the American Airgun website(tons of info): http://www.airguns.net/


Here is a small section from the American Airguns website, General Info, article titled"Three Basic Types of Airguns:

Spring-Piston Airguns
When someone says airgun these days they probably mean a spring-piston airgun thanks to Dr. Robert D. Beeman's relationship with Weihrauch and Feinwerkbau, two of the best and most prolific makers of high quality spring- piston airguns over the years. Spring-piston airguns are the easiest airguns to shoot, maintain and own. The spring-piston gun most shooters cut their teeth on is the break barrel. The break barrel airgun is cocked by holding the stock in one hand and breaking the airgun in half at the breech holding the barrel with the other. This action of breaking the airguns moves a piston backward within the receiver as well as compressing a stout spring behind it. The trigger sear clicks into a notch in the piston and holds the whole works in tension. With a break barrel airgun the pellet is placed directly into the breech and the barrel is tipped back into position and now you are ready to fire. Take the safety off and put positive pressure on the trigger. When the sear released the piston, it moves forward briskly with the power of a big spring behind it. All this action pushes a column of air forward into the rear end of the pellet sitting in the breech. The effect of all this causes the pellet to move briskly out the barrel towards the target of you choice. Spring-piston airguns are cocked be breaking the barrel, cocking an underlever, a side lever, or a top lever (overlever). Inside they are basically the same in principle. Things like spring rates, diameter of the compression tube (receiver) and swept area can be different depending on the gun designers ideas. Spring-piston airguns are very reliable and long lived. The worst thing you could do to any spring-piston airguns is to "dry fire" it, that is, fire it without a pellet in the breech. What happens when this error occurs? The piston head is smashed into the front of the receiver (compression tube) because the missing pellet cannot offer the needed resistance to the air column. This resistance cushions the piston from the tremendous energy the compressed spring releases to move the air column. Spring-piston airguns last a long time, but the springs do wear out after a while. Do not worry. A spring piston replacement and piston seal change are relatively cheap and very easy for an airgun smith to accomplish, but again we are talking years of use and thousands of pellets. Most firearms shooter like the recoil sensation felt when shooting a spring airgun. This is a smooth steady push to the shoulder as the spring inside the airgun does its work pushing the pellet out the barrel.

Offline deerhunter

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2009, 01:56:19 PM »
Here is the Beeman Article, the Care and feeding of airguns.  Remember, he was writing this from the Beemans products point of view, but everything he is writing about is accurate.



Care and Feeding of Airguns
Reprinted from the Beeman Precision Airgun Guide

A modern spring-piston air rifle or air pistol will deliver its maximum shooting potential and remain trouble-free for an unusually long period of time if properly lubricated and cleaned. Ignoring this will inevitable lead to wear, power and accuracy loss, and ultimate breakdown. Improper lubrication can cause damage to the gun and possible injury to the shooter and bystanders. Understanding the principles will both increase shooting enjoyment and assist functioning. Here are the BASIC POINTS:

The COMPRESSION CHAMBER is that portion of the receiver where actual air compression takes place when the piston moves forward in shooting. The piston seal must remain moist with lubrication to reduce friction, create the best air seal and prevent seal deterioration. Since the air is heated to as high as 2,000 degrees (F) for a fraction of a second upon firing, only high flash point lubricants must be used. This eliminates almost all petroleum based lubes and synthetics used in firearms and pneumatic airguns. They will cause dieseling (detonation) that can possible damage the gun and injure the shooter. Only specialized synthetic and organic oils carefully selected for high flash point, proper lubicity and lack of impurities should used. Only Beeman Chamber Oil 9250, Beeman Airlube 9300 or Beeman Ultra Lube 9290 (the only recommended lube for recoilless airguns) should be used in the compression chamber.

Apply this oil very sparingly. One or two drops every 5,000 to 6,000 rounds, or each 8-12 months, should be plenty. It is best to wait until you can hear the piston seal "squeak" during cocking before you apply chamber oil. It is easy to overlube. (To apply chamber oil to tap loading guns, open the tap, put in the oil, rotate the tap to the closed position, and point the muzzle up, while cocking, to allow the oil to flow into the compression chamber.)

Recoilless spring-piston airguns such as FWB 300S and 65 require very little lubrication, and one or two drops of Beeman Ultra Lube is sufficient. Do not over lube. Use all lubes sparingly and as directed.

MAINSPRINGS are the storehouses of the energy the shooter provides by cocking the airgun. To expand smoothly with as little friction and vibration as possible, they should be lubricated regularly. The mainspring is housed in the spring cylinder, which is a polished cylinder containing the piston, the mainspring, and the spring guide shaft. All metal mainsprings eventually have some cant; therefore, the polish and lubrication of all surfaces here is critical for maximum performance. Velocity and smoothness can be somewhat increased by simple, but careful, treatment. Add 2-3 drops of Beeman Spring Oil via an oiling needle through the long slot in the receiver which is exposed directly or when the stock is removed. The Spring Oil should be applied to the mainspring of each recoiling spring-piston gun not less than every five or ten tins of pellets or every six months. The mainsprings of recoilless guns need only light, infrequent lubrication; this lubrication should be done by an authorized service shop. Recoilless guns receiving extensive use in competition should be shop serviced once a year.

Regular recoiling spring-piston airguns will benefit greatly from an initial application of Beeman Spring Gel 9295 or Mainspring Dampening Compound 9320. If these gels are used, one should not apply Spring Oil for at least 500- 1,00 shots and then only very, very sparingly. Beeman Metal-2-Metal 9130 can be used to introduce the excellent lubrication value of its moly; it provides dry lubrication and smoothes the metal. It is of special value when burnished onto a clean mainspring and onto the inside walls of the spring cylinder after disassembly and cleaning by those skilled in airgun service. The Beeman RX uses air as a mainspring. For the RX, use Beeman Ultra Lube (1 drop every 15,000-20,000 shots) when inside the power unit, as directed, instead of Spring Oil.

COCKING LEVER LINKAGES receive considerable pressure; proper lubrication insures smooth operation and minimum wear. Moly is also useful in such areas as the sliding small link in the Beeman/Webley Tempest and Hurricane, and on rifle cocking linkages.

BARREL PIVOT POINTS and detents benefit from regular lubrication with either Ultra Lube or a light a light polarizing oil. Remember, do not over-oil, and keep low flash point oils away from air vent and breech seal. Moly is good here.

TRIGGER MECHANISMS in spring-piston airguns vary from the simple two moving parts of economy models to the beautifully engineered complexity of the Feinwerkbau 300's. In most cases molybdenum disulphide lubricants should not be used on trigger mechanisms. (Do not attempt to lubricate triggers on the sophisticated recoilless guns.) Triggers and sears on less expensive rifles and pistols benefit from very sparing application of B30 White Lube Paste 9200.

BORE CLEANING. Since airguns do not use powder or primers, cleaning is not necessary to prevent most rust; however, it is essential to good accuracy. Use Cleaner/Degreaser. Accuracy suffers badly due to caked grease residues blown into the bore from the compression chamber and from leading. Most accuracy complaints are the result of dirty bores-even though they may look clean! For storage, clean the bore and leave it with a light coating of MP-5 polarizing oil 9205. After cleaning with Beeman Cleaner/Degreaser (do NOT use regular firearm bore cleaners as they may injure seals and cause dieseling), follow with dry patches until no trace of oil is seen. A few regular or cleaning pellets will have to be shot through a cleaned barrel before it can be expected to return to its "zero".

EXTERIOR SURFACES should be regularly wiped with a Silicone Cloth 9400 to maintain the quality of the finish. Before any guns are stored they should be given a good wiping with a very high-grade polarizing oil such as Beeman MP-5.

USE PROPER PELLETS! Use only high quality Beeman pellets to avoid harmful oils, abrasive material and gun-wrecking air blow-by. Precision airguns are intended for use only with lead shot or pellets; steel shot or darts generally injure rifled bores. Properly seated pellets should not show rubmarks on rear of skirt if breech is reopened prior to firing. Damaged, used, or unauthorized projectiles may be unsafe. Plastic jacketed projectiles may cause dangerous ricochet, excessive piston impact and excessive penetration.

Offline Swampman

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2009, 02:05:42 PM »
The fellow that writes the airgun articles for Backwoodsman Magazine says don't leave pressure in the gun during storage.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: To leave air in a pump up or not?
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2009, 05:54:43 AM »
  Deerhunter & TM;
  Good info, thank you...You probably prevented me from making a "rookie mistake". My only experience with air guns besides Red Ryder, was with a Baikal I bought back in the early 70s. I likely didn't help it much with wrong oil and a few dry fires. I do know it wasn't shooting very strong when I passed it on to one of my grandsons; but then again it wasn't shooting really strong top startt. Thanks again..I will read first..
  One more question,, brake cleaner too strong..what do you use for the initial cleaning out of cosmoline etc?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)