fitting iron on wheels and all sorts of other stuff

[Don Krag]

Hopefully we'll finally get the house sold at our old place this Fall. I hope to go out early October and fit some iron on some wheels. For a 54" diameter wood frame, and 3" x 3/8" wrought iron, how much expansion in the iron should I expect? I was thinking about a 1/4" overlap in diameter, but that was just a blind guess based loosely on the interference fits I've done on smaller stell parts.

A friend just bought 30 acres an hour or so outside of town and wants to start doing some medieval gonne work and volunteered his place for shooting. Woohoo....I can get back into the big-bore stuff again!

On a related note, I've been doing modern rifle building now for the past several months and have acquired access to lots of shop equipment now (wow, it's been quite the refresher in machining, too). Hopefully I can finish out some of the older projects I've had sitting around. The main one of course is the wheels for the big 6" cal Sikh project. Next up will be the little 1.7" cal medieval one.

I've been doing a lot of ornamental iron work with old timey wrought and such the past six months, as well. I'm looking forward to doing some more carriage and cannon related ironwork projects. If somebody has some small parts they're needing, shoot me a message. Just don't be in a hurry for them.

I'm sitting in a delivery room right now waiting on my wife's uterus and our third son to pop out. I think it's kind of funny with the internet filtering they have in place. All my knife sites are blocked due to "weapon" sites. All but one gunsmithing sites are blocked for "weapon". The only two sites not blocked are these cannon and mortar forums and weapon's guild forums. Hah....certainly nothing "weapon" related there! I can't even post baby pics on facebook or myspace either...."social networking" is restricted. Gee, blocking social sites for guest internet in a maternity ward...what rocket scientist came up with that one!!??

[Max Caliber]

Don, Are you talking about fitting iron tires to wooden wheels or you talking about banding wooden framework with iron?

Max

[Don Krag]

Fitting iron tires to wooden wheels. I got the iron off some old wagon wheels. Since they were within a few inches diameter of what I wanted, I'm using them as-is. I have the hubs and spokes mostly done for the wheels, but I wasn't sure what overlap was typical for getting a good fit. I'm assuming tighter is better, but not so tight that it shaves wood off after heating and hammering into place.

[Max Caliber]

Don, The tightness of the wheel parts has a large bearing on how how much smaller the tire is to the wheel. The spokes should be very tightly seated in the hub, the felloes should be driven down tightly on the spoke tenon shoulders and the ends of the fellows should be fitted tightly together with no space between them. I use a steel engineers tape to do the measuring. The engineers tape is flat and works much better than the cupped, carpenters tape, especially on the inside of the tire. I think you are about right on the difference which would be around 1/4 inch if the wheel parts are tight. I would do one wheel then see what you have. It's sort of a trial and error process on an old wheel.

I think the best way to heat a tire is with a fire that has burned down to a good bed of coals, then set the tire on fire brick or whatever so the heat can get to whole tire, rotate the tire in the fire from time to time while it heats to distribute the heat as evenly as possible. How hot to get the tire?  I use a piece of soft wood like white wood and stick the wood to the tire at several points and when the tire gets to a point where the wood just starts to smoke, that is the highest you want to go. Take out the tire and with assistance of a couple of guys, fit the tire on the wheel. When the tire is all the way on the wheel, use a wooden mallet to center the wheel in the tire, then cool the tire. I have seen viedeos of tires being fitted with large billowing clouds of smoke, That is too much heat and when the tire is finally on the wheel the felloes are pretty much ruined. Take your time and the process should go well.

[subdjoe]

I recall watching an episode of The Woodwrights Shop with Roy Underhill, in which he goes through the steps of building a wheel.  It seems to me that the interior circumfrence of the tire was just a touch under the circumfrence of the wheel, just a hair,  and that when the heated tire was paced onto the wheel it slid on with minimum hammering, but when cooled it might as well have been glued in place.  

Here is one site I found with some information: http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/mechanics/Engineer-Mechanic-Encyclopedia-Vol2/Wheel.html

You might try calling them for information.  

[GGaskill]

You also have to remember that wood is a dynamic material and it will change dimensions depending on humidity.  When humidity goes above the average, the wood wants to expand, but when it is constrained by something that doesn't expand (the steel tire in this case), the wood fibers are crushed, so when the humidity returns to its normal state (or dryer than normal), the wood parts are loose.

[Articifer Tom]

I think  on new  57" wheels tire is about 3/4" smaller then wood wheel. You should consider doing it by pulling it together and welding . Giving only localized damage and lot more control when tightening .
'

[Don Krag]

Our humidity pretty much stays 80-90% here!

I did get quite a bit of design work done on two of my modern firearm scratch builds.


...and at 1:30 CST.......Meet the newest member of my cannon crew....

Brendan Albrecht Halter
6lbs 9oz

[Double D]

Hey!!! Congratualtions Mom and Dad!!!

So beat Tim to the punch!

Welcome to the board Brendan, what do you shoot?   

[subdjoe]

DD, it looks like he don't shoot blanks! 

Don, Welcome.  And Mazel tov!  And welcome to Brendan too. Although I expect it will be a year or two before he starts posting.

Nice looking wife too.

[Cat Whisperer]

YES, welcome all to the board!

Keeping perspective, family IS more important than cannons and mortars.

CELEBRATE!

[KABAR2]

Don & Family,

Congratulations on your Latest addition to your family!   

May God Bless!



Allen <><

[Don Krag]

Welcome to the board Brendan, what do you shoot?   

...nothing I'd want to load my cannon up with! Hah!


I figure I have a good burn pile up at the old place. I was planning on waiting until it reduced to coals and use that to heat the iron tires. It'll probably be mid October before burn bans are lifted, so I should have the wood parts done by then. The Sikh model has some of the hold down staps coming down and riveting to the felloes, so if I do take it to a dryer place (the inlaws property out in the upper AZ tundra) the tires shouldn't fall off.

[gary michie]

Hi;
As a reenactor I build only 57" wheels with 1/2" thick tires 3/8" longer than the cir. of the O.D. of the wheel. I heat the tires on a pile of pallets(4or5 of them) and use a pine stick to check the temp of the tire. When the stick puts a charcoal mark on the tire you are hot enough. with the dish down on a very solid surface drop the tire on and while one person puts out the flames with a garden hose and cools the tire, another person, hammers the tire on; MOVE FAST very fast. Your wheel should ring something like a bell a wooden bell.

[Div Arty]

Gary or Max.  Question.     After you have installed the spokes into the hub at 6 deg. dish.  Do you offset the tenons 6 deg. or leave them streight and offset the mortice in the felloes that amount.  The plans that I have show the spokes with the off set.  But it looks like if the mortice would be offset it would be stronger.   Thanks   Ron

[Max Caliber]

The spoke tenons are offset so they go straight into the felloes.  I machine the spoke tenons in a lathe down to just short of the finished length, then drive the spokes tightly into the hub, then, using a tenon cutter, I finish cutting the tenons down until the spokes are all the same length from the  center of the hub to the shoulder of the tenon. If you were going to make a lot of wheels, you could make a tenon cutter that cuts the tenons to the exact length in one operation like the factories did it.