Thinking about a auto scale / dispencer

[R.W.Dale]

You still can not throw regular stick powder with consistancy.

Poppycock! I could not disagree more. Again you guys have this phobia and falsely believe that .2 of a grain matters in a rifle charge of 50+ grains. Well it doesn't. The below group was shot on thrown charges


 

[LaOtto222]

Nice group

Please do not read just part of what I wrote with out consideration of the rest. I never said that measuring vs weighing, that one was more accurate. In fact I said that benchrest people measure their charges and if it is not accurate and repeatable, they would not be doing it.

Have you ever tried to throw IMR 4198? I have; It does not throw worth a dang in my RCBS Uniflow. Varget is hardly a long stick power. For a 50 grain charge + or - .2 grains will not matter that much, even 40 grains. For a 22 Hornet it does. Even a 221 Fireball it matters. For years I would only use ball powders, some flake powders and short stick powders - I steered away from any thing with long sticks.



These were shot with charges that were weighed - so what? It has already been established that measuring powder is very accurate -bench rest people do it for Pete's sake. They do not use powders like IMR 4198 however. They do use H322, which is very similar to Varget and believe me they would be very concerned about being .2 of grain off in their loads for a 6 PPC

You can continue to use the throw method - there is nothing wrong with it, as long as you use powders it likes to throw well. I have done it both ways and I still prefer my RCBS ChargeMaster. I just do not like to keep messing around with the weighing and adjusting until I get what I want and then to do it all over again for the next case I load for or to try several different charges for load development. I could get a fancy powder thrower that costs as much as an electronic one, but I see no advantage to clicking in a charge to punching in a charge. If I was working outside, then I would have me a Harrell thrower, but I don't. If throwing charges floats your boat then go for it.

[dpe.ahoy]

I have had a Lyman 1200 DPS for a few years and wish I hadn't waited so long to go electronic.  Like said, changing loads is as easy as pushing a button, loads can be stored and loads are more exact than I could do with hand thrown charges.  It does like to bind up with the fine grains of H-110 though, so I switched to LilGun for most of those cartridges.  Even my other powder measures bind up or scatter H110 around, still like the powder though.  DP

[quickdtoo]

DP, buy the $22 speed upgrade kit, it will make it faster, easier to clean out and it works great with H110. 

Tim

[R.W.Dale]

Lotto I throw imr 5010 a 20mm cannon pulldown powder with HUGE granules much much larger than anything commercially avalible. The key  to throwing extruded powders constantly is to operate the measure like you mean it, so when grains get cut it does not stop or slow down the drum's rotation. If you try to be all milktoast about operating the measure and therefore allow the drum to hang as it dumps then yes you will have problems.

So again I completely reject your assertion that stick powders cannot be metered accurately. Heck how do you think factory ammo is loaded?


As to benchresters and .2grains.  Well all I have to say is there's many variables that are much much more important to accuracy than a variance of around 1/4 of 1%

[benny123]

Reading all of the replies made me lose sight of the original question. Pretty sure it was about individual experiences and pro's and con's of various digital powder dispensers. 

A few weeks back I decided i would invest in reloading equipment in order to customize loads. i bought the Hornady Lock-and-Load kit and though it came with their metered powder measure I felt myself weighing the individual charges and trickling to bring to the desired amount. The digital scale provided varied ~ .5 grains. That was the reason I decided to invest in an automatic dispenser. Knowing I had 19.0 grains and not 18.7 not 19.2 gave me piece of mind.

This evening I loaded 100 cartridges through the Lyman DSP 3, some 45 caliber some 357. I did need to calibrate twice (once for each caliber) but fluorescent light, nor any type of interference was an issue. Apart from that it was setup to "auto-reload" for speed. Tray-in, ~ 1 second delay then 19.0 grain HS6 dispenses. Tray-out and dispense into cartridge. Less than 15 seconds to dispense the powder, 5 seconds to funnel in cartridge, and back in the DSP3 to automatically dispense another charge.

As the Lyman allows you to store load data, I was able to select "357 N105" and dispense a moderate 357 load following the 45. Couldn't be simpler, and, you have comfort of knowing exactly (to the tenth of a grain) what is dispensed in each charge. For me, the beauty lies in the ability to have a fairly high level of control with one of the levels of production.  .

The link  that "quickdtoo" cited is informative and what I read before i made the purchase. The only minor complaint I have about the Lyman is that it is marketed as faster than any other powder system. Per the reviews this is inaccurate. if the RCBS were available locally i would have paid the extra $ for it, as I think the faster dispensing speed is a big selling feature. Otherwise i am happy with the purchase.

[Lloyd Smale]

for the most part in my experince stick powders can vary a heck of a lot more then .2 of a grain out of a powder dump. Ive seen the vary as much as a whole grain. Still not a lot to worry about in a big case unless your running right on the ragged edge of the pressure curve but if you go to a smaller case it can cause problems with accuracy. Even a differnce in .2 of a grain can cause inconsistancy and pressure problemes  in a small case like a 22 hornet. Ive seen where varations in powder weight did open up groups, maybe not all the time but it does happen and ive never seen where consistancy in charge weight opened up groups so i guess ill stick with consistancy.

[R.W.Dale]

Ok let me pose you guys a question?

If you were gonna sit down and load 500 rds of 9mm on a progressive press knowing that the 5.1grn unique charge you were using throws within .1+- of a grain would you be OK with that?

EDIT

Back on the subject of throwing charges of extruded powder and accuracy I was bored and did a little test. The scales used were an old Lyman M5 by Ohaus and a cheapo battery powered generic jewelers digital scale, this one is just to provide another data point.

Digital on the right-----Balance scale on the left

Those granules are a lot larger than the pic conveys

 All these charges were thrown through my $50 second hand RCBS uniflow with the large drum and a micrometer adjusting stem. Note also that my measure has no baffle. To start this test I filled the hopper 1/2 full and then proceeded to cycle 3 dumps that just went back into the top of the measure to settle things before starting my test run.

Now I'm not knocking those of you who use these new combo tools but please don't try to tell people they're more accurate than properly thrown charges or especially that you CAN'T throw certain propellants accurately.

Ive seen where varations in powder weight did open up groups, maybe not all the time but it does happen and ive never seen where consistancy in charge weight opened up groups so i guess ill stick with consistancy.

In the grand scheme of reloading 0.1 +- grains is about as much accuracy as you can realistically ever expect to get. I have yet to see a digital reloading scale that even registers increments any smaller than whole tenths. Remember that 0.1 grain is just three kernels of most extruded powders.

The large LCD display is easy to read in grains or grams and weighs precisely to +/- 0.1 grain.

This is straight off RCBS'es description for their 1500 Chargemaster scale

[skarke]

The base electronic pact scale is $128, and isn't in the same universe as a Harrell, fwiw.  Everything else in the electronic class is nearly two bills or more, and you still need a beam back up.

[skarke]

Speed is important to me.  The first, best upgrade I ever made to my reloading bench was a Lee Auto Disk at 38 bucks.  Very accurate with a bunch of powders.

I considered the following:

Hornady at $65
RCBS at $123
Redding at $118
All require a stand at 20 bucks to get the most out of them.

The Harrell Culver (the entry model, which is vastly superior to any other listed above) was my first, and last, step up.  It is $180, and worth every penny.  It'll last several lifetimes, can be sold within 10 bucks of what you paid for it, and is FAST!!!!


Electronic powder measures are pretty cool, but, IMHO, really not necessary, prone to failure, and just too darn big.  Get that Culver, a good beam scale, and you're set for your children's children's lifetimes.

[bubba]

I have a dps II 1200. I never knew there was an upgrade. I ordered it from midway today.  I am very happy with the set  up. Like most have said here, I dump the powder in the case start the next measure and by the tike it is dumped, I have the bullet seated. Man I will have to set faster with the upgrade.  I love the info I get off here over and over. 

[sr sawyer]

Just wondering if you took the plunge and got the auto dispenser and if so how you liked it  

I bought a Pact several years ago and think the RCBS you were looking at is the same thing.  These are great units.

Too speed up the loading process I drop my initial charges a couple of grains light with the manual dispenser and let the auto dribble the final charge.

Ken

[stimpylu32]

Ken

Ya I picked up a almost new RCBS PowderMaster / Pact combo and have been using it all weekend , once I got all the buttons figgered out    it went perty smooth , so far I have loaded around 300 rounds with trying different powders & charge weights to just get the feel of what works and what I may need to use the old beam scale for .

stimpy

[mjbgalt]

now....would you EVER go back to the caveman way again??? 

[sr sawyer]

When I began using my Pact digital scale with dispenser I did not discard my "caveman" scale.  I still use the beam scale to verify my near max loads.  It may be just mine, but I have found that the accuracy level of +/- 1/10th grain, my digital was on the minus side.  Although this is minor on starting loads in can be major on the max side. 

On the other hand maybe the caveman  scales are on the plus side.  Regardless of who is right or wrong the forty two year old Lyman Ohaus are still my bench mark scale.

Stimpy, you are probably loving your new found reloading tool and asking your self why did I not buy one of these sooner.  Forget the questioins and just bask in the progress.  I did. 

Ken

[billyed]

I use a pact scale, dispenser and it is the crap. Makes loading a lot quicker. Every time I  check a charge it's pretty much dead on with the beam scale.

[stimpylu32]

now....would you EVER go back to the caveman way again??? 

Matt , it does make a world of difference , don't think it will totaly replace the old RCBS 505 as I still use it to do some of my wildcat load work and to double check this new fangled push button thing-e . 

I do like the fact that I can be seating the bullet in one round while its weighing the next charge . 

stimpy

[benny123]

Good the vibrations of your press doesn't disrupt the scale. Though I can't seat bullets as I fill 'em (press and scale on same table), once I place the tray in the Lyman I, with the other hand, manually pour the next charge in a digital scale. By the time the Lyman beeps I have two charges to pour. Something gratifying about knowing the time your waiting for the powder to dispense is being put to good use!