Time for a new melting pot...Lyman or RCBS?

[Dakota Confederate]

Well, I think now with the wife really getting heavy into shooting I'm going to start looking for a new melting pot.  Right now I'm torn between the Lyman and RCBS 20# bottom pour pots (sorry, ain't going with another Lee pot again) but I'm not sure which one I ought to be looking at getting.  Any suggestions?

[Turbo]

I recently purchased a used RCBS pro-melt furnace on ebay. I wouldn't trade it for the world. It gives me consistent temperatures, is easy to use, and just plain works great. My previous experiences were with two Lee melters. They aren't even in the same universe as the RCBS Pro-melt.

Jon

[Lloyd Smale]

I have a lyman and its ok but not as nice as an rcbs. If you want the real cadilac go with a magma

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there casters,

Why even go with the electric pot?

I can understand the temp. control and ease of setting up. but with a big pot over my OLD Colman stove and a BOTTOM POUR ladel I can cast big circles around any bottom pour out there.

Just asking.

Keep em coming! :wink:

[Kenneth L. Walters]

Over the years I've bought each new furnace Lyman introduced.  They all wore out.  Some last a while but eventually they all died.

RCBS had their furnace designed and originally built by a company called Ohio Thermal.  I bought an Ohio Thermal.  Still works perfectly.  I've bought two more RCBS furnaces since.  They all work just fine.  

As one who use to collect reloading equipment I've had a couple SAECO furnaces which worked well.  I've had several Lee's.  Even had a Potter and a 90 pound Magma.

The RCBS is the best.  Buy one!

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there bullet casters,

A question I would have for all of you pot users (Electric casting pots - really don't care to hear from "pot"users) out there.

HOW DO YOU KEEP THEM FROM PLUGGING UP!

I use WW for most of my casting and the experience I have had with electric - bottom pour pots has been anything but good.

Now I think I do a good job of fluxing and skimming my metal, making it a practice to melt the scrap and casting into ingots rather then melting scrap at the time of casting - BUT even with two melts and the skimming that goes with it the bottom pour was a PAIN!!!!!!!

Wrote to the NRA and their reply was that as long as I used WW I would continue to have the problem.

Anyway, the use of a bottom pour LADEL and a pot over the Colman is a great deal faster and NO problems with plugged up bottom pour furnaces!

Sat down with a caster who uses an electric bottom pour one time with the thought that two of us should be able to really get some production. NOT SO! Spent most of the time waiting.

When I am alone, I usually run 3 - 4 molds when casting - give me a good helper and production REALLY PICKS UP - depending on the outside temp. a 5th mold may even be employed.

If an electric bottom pour of the typical type could even begin to keep up, I would like to see/hear about it.

Again, the question as stated back a posting or so, except for the convenence why use an electric pot?

Keep em coming! :wink:

[Kenneth L. Walters]

Never had a problem with the pots plugging up UNLESS I got the alloy too cold by adding to much metal.  If you are careful about that this problem doesn't happen.

One real advantage to an electric furnace that you DO NOT get with the arrangement you are using is limited alloy vapor.  Because of product liability reloader furnaces don't get the alloy so hot that you should have a significant problem with potential lead posioning.  Having said that, 400,000+ bullets later I have a mild case.  Still with a stove you are much more likely to run into that problem.

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there,

Temp. seemed to be fine, but the spout was a PROBLEM to keep clean. Finally just gave it up as a bad try.

As to smoke and/or lead vapors. I run with a 20inch fan set up to pull air away from me. With the fan in front of me (behind the stove) the fresh air moves past me taking the bad stuff away as it goes.
 
While I won't claim 400,000+ bullets, I would sure hate to think of casting that many as slow as an electric pot is.

Thanks for the replies.  

Keep em coming! :wink:

[Shootingamigo]

Darrell - I have used RCBS LYMAN and now Magma. The Lyman was sent back for rebuild within the first yr. Had to send them a copy of sales recept to get it warrantied. The heating element and the thermostat were bad. I bought a used RCBS made in 1986 and sent it back for not keeping temp. They fixed it and put in a new pot all free. i also have a new RCBS. I just recently picked up a Master caster. Both the spouts freeze up on the RCBS furnaces when I get below a pound or so of alloy in it. Didnt happen with the LYMAN. The positioning of the thermostat has alot to do with that. The thermostat on the LYMAN is located at the bottom or near the bottom of the pot. The RCBS thermostat is located much higher. I cast at 650-670 degrees and I dont think it would happen at a higher temp. I turn up the pot 20 degrees or so and finish the job. The master caster machine is a dream. I cant believe the difference. No spout freeze and a dream to pour with.

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there Shootingamigo,

What little I have heard about Magma has been good, thanks.

I think you are stating the opinion that the problem I had was Temp. related rather then metal contamination. Is that correct?

With your obvious delight of the Magma product, where do you come down on the speed of casting with this machine?

I understand that the pots on their automatic casting set ups must be fast to keep up with the rapid production of bullets they are said to be able to do. But what are your feelings about yours? Is the pot big enough to keep things rolling for a good casting session or do you need to keep stopping to refill the pot and wait for it to come up to temp.

My system may not be fancy, but my pot is big and casting is fast. Even as big as my pot is, I usually still end up adding maybe 20 or 30 pounds during a casting session.

I do not cast for the "fun of it" in the same way I might set down to my loading bench. Sooooooo, when I set up to cast I want production and lots of it while I'm in the process.  There is no time and/or inclination to fiddle around while I'm casting.

Thanks for the come back.

Keep em coming! :wink:

[Shootingamigo]

Darrel- As far as the heat temp on the RCBS Iam sure in my case anyway that it is due to thermostat. Everything is perfect til the last pound of alloy or so. Lyman refers to this spout freeze and their manual says that their thermostat was relocated on the bottom of the pot to correct this. Seems to be the case at least with me.
           The temp on the magma is perfect all the time. The mold heat is controlled with a little blower attached to the top of the machine. It is positioned to cool the mold rapidly without affecting pot temp. This blower is a high output model and very well controlled to cool just the small area the size of a mold and nothing around it.I took a temp reading with it on and off and pot temp remained exact at least as far as my themometer said.  It is a lever controlled operation. I was previously running 2 20 pound RCBS pots. I am not an electrician but the pot comes to temp quickly and maintains heat very well. I too cast for the quantity but quality as well. I sell these bullets. The way I run this is to start with 38 pounds of alloy and empty the pot thru production then melt the sprue. I use 38 pounds as the 40 pound pot is exactly 40 pounds and it is to the very top and almost over flowing. A little hard to flux that way. But they thought of that also - The rim of the pot is a whopping 3 inches wide so if you mis calculate and over fill it it wont run over. The pot seems to be a real heavy material like a cast iron or something. Heats thru with out over heating. The pot also has a metal covering around it. No aluminum! The double pour spouts are very small openings and are removable as a unit (Brass) This pot pours differently. You push the lever to activate flow. The flow rod is about 3 times the thickness and very well thought of. This unit pours very quickly. The positioning of the mold is critical with this. A little off center and you get a bullet half perfect and half looks like it needs more heat. The pour has to be in the middle of the sprue hole all this is a very easy adjustment. Being a rookie with this machine I still have better than doubled the production. I will say I wasnt sure of this machine I cast my way and wasnt sure this machine would be able to produce what my customers were used to. The bullets came out perfect and I mean better than I ever made by hand. The interesting thing is the consistency of the bullets. Even if you make a mistake you cant miss it as it is repeated til you fix it. This machine is very well made. Heavy materials and the craftsmanship is beyond anything I ever bought. The rework of the molds I sent to them was fantastic. They change the sprue plate but they totally machine the top of the mold for a real smooth sprue cut off. You cannot get a more even bullet base with this. Each mold had the pins reset as well. The adjustment of the sprue plate is easily done with a turn of the nut and there is a spring for consitant resistance you wont get it to loosen as with the Lyman molds. They return the old sprue plate and hardware as well. They sell the same pot without the machine as well. It is mountable if you decide later to go to the machine. If we could get them to build a car maybe I wouldnt have to fix and repaair my daughters 3 yr old Escort constantly! Didnt mean to write an essay here but as you can tell these people impressed the hell out of me!

                                            Shootingamigo
              You can email any questions if you want - jmperch@aol.com
                               Good casting to you my friend!

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there Shootingamigo.

Thanks!!!  Your info is great, and none to much.

Is your commercial casting a job job, or just a part time thing?

Reading between the lines, I am guessing you are set up to cast automaticly rather then handling the molds totally by hand.

You really touched a sore spot when you talk about sprue plates getting out of adjustment (loose). My LBT mold is the best mold I have ever used and Veral seems to have that part of the mold under control for the most part. Lyman has been making molds for too many years not to have solved their problem - even at a bit higher cost to the customer.

You have not said what your alloy is, so again reading between the lines I am guessing that WW are at least a good part of your mix.

One more question at present, what is the price range for this Rolls Royce of electric pots.

It sounds almost to good to be true - size and quality. Sounds like they build things like I was calling the shots, meaning heavy and made to last.

Frankly, I get a belly full of the garbage produced in this throw away day and age. Guess that shows my age. No one has ever said I build anything too light, but my feeling is I want to do it once.

I do a bit of custom hand rail, and am generaly out of sorts with the garbage I see on and around people's homes. I know they paid only a small portion of what my work would cost and they got just what they paid for. Junk when it came out of the box!

Keep em coming! :wink:

[Shootingamigo]

Darrel,
           I would guess your problem is temperature related. Maybe the thermostat isnt what it should be and there could be a variation. The heating coils are calibrated as well and maybe that is the problem. Try for the heck of it kicking it up 20-25 degrees and see if it will flow.
           The alloy I use is lino and wheelweight. I havent had any problems with WW as long as I did everything the same way all the time. By that I mean clean and flux the raw wheelweights the first time around and keep the temp at 700-750. At about 800 degrees and above there is a difference in end product due to oxidizing the tin content. I had a real long talk with Bill Ferguson when I bought the furnace for this purpose and melting lino. A real long talk as it was my dime and the man is an encyclopedia. He brought this to light although I thought there was a difference but wasnt sure if I wasnt being overly picky again.
           I have been doing the bullets part time and then when I got sick I went full time and add as I go. Darrell the people I meet are worth GOLD!! Great people great business.
           The free standing pot 40 pounds is 395 I think. It comes with a mold guide. The machine including pot is 795. It is a lever pull operation very simple to work and adjust even for a Pollock that is left handed and stubborn as hell (Perchinske my last name) The pot like I said is mountable if you want to add the machine portion later. Really the pot is cheaper that 2 RCBS pots. Nothing wrong with the RCBS but man this pot is just that much better. The spout is also available for single pour as well for the big bullets. I didnt buy that figuring I would need to do those still by hand. Well I will order one of those as well soon.
             Dont mention railing and such. I spent real good money for this goof to finish the deck I couldnt finish. How in the hell can you put a deck screw in a perfectly good piece of wood for a railing without a pilot hole so it doesnt splinter. Now I have to sand everything. This guy wasnt the cheapest by far. He wanted to make it right and I said just go here is the check and do yourself a favor and get a DIFFERENT JOB. I thought if I made my bullets this way sloopy for sure the guys in Texas would be in my living room by morning and I live in OHIO. Nice talking to you Guy!!

                                                Shootingamigo

[Darrell Davis]

Hey there Shootingamigo,

T H A N K     A G A I N !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I should add that my rail is steel. Can do wood, but really like to work steel.

Keep em coming! :wink:

[Jack Monteith]

If you phone Bill Ferguson for advice it will cost you a lot more than a dime, but you WILL get your money's worth.

Bye
Jack

[Louis Farrugia]

HI SHOOTINGAMIGO

I AM FROM MALTA EUROPE I AM CASTING AND SWAGING AND SHOOT FOR HOBBY. I DON`T MIND ERNNING SOME MONEY AND GET MY SHOOTING FREE .

I AM INTERESTED THE MAGMA CASTER SO I SEE  YOU WOULD FAVER THE MAGMA DO YOU THINK I SHOOD I GET IT NEW OR SECOND HAND.


BEST REGARDS

LOUIS

Darrell - I have used RCBS LYMAN and now Magma. The Lyman was sent back for rebuild within the first yr. Had to send them a copy of sales recept to get it warrantied. The heating element and the thermostat were bad. I bought a used RCBS made in 1986 and sent it back for not keeping temp. They fixed it and put in a new pot all free. i also have a new RCBS. I just recently picked up a Master caster. Both the spouts freeze up on the RCBS furnaces when I get below a pound or so of alloy in it. Didnt happen with the LYMAN. The positioning of the thermostat has alot to do with that. The thermostat on the LYMAN is located at the bottom or near the bottom of the pot. The RCBS thermostat is located much higher. I cast at 650-670 degrees and I dont think it would happen at a higher temp. I turn up the pot 20 degrees or so and finish the job. The master caster machine is a dream. I cant believe the difference. No spout freeze and a dream to pour with.

[Shootingamigo]

Hello Louis.
                 With new or used I dont believe you can't go wrong. I follow Ebay all the time and haven't seen but one. But with some of the better equipment on Ebay it goes for not much less than new it seems. I haven't had a bit of problem with their machine or molds. There was a guy that was a moderator here that used their stuff commercially and a guy on another forum by the name of Creeker used their stuff as well with great sucess. I guess I am saying it wouldnt be a waste of money to buy new. I bought mine new and had the molds I wanted converted and received them in same shipment. But I always want everything yesterday like a kid in a candy store. Never have been thrifty or patient but dont apologize for it either.
                Good luck with either way you choose my friend! If I can answer any questions when you get it email me jmperch@aol.com

[BruceB]

After ten years or so with my RCBS Pro-Melt, I can say a few things about it:

-If I keep it clean, I have NO trouble with spout clogging.  My WW are smelted and poured into ingots from another pot (outdoors!) with a gas flame.  This keeps most of the crud away from the casting process.

-My normal procedure is to run the furnace at MAXIMUM temperature all the time, regardless of the alloy or mould used.  By thermometer reading, "max" is about 870 degrees on my furnace.  This works fine for lino, for WW, or for pure lead....and any mixtures thereof, too.

-Production with a single two-cavity RCBS or Lyman iron mould runs around 400-500 good bullets per hour, and with a single 4-cavity Lyman mould it's about 800-1000 per hour.  Using more than one mould slows me down, due to the increased number of hand motions involved in always putting-down or picking-up the various moulds.  I know that these production figures will raise some eyebrows, but I have witnesses!  (Go to www.castpics.net and check "Buckshot's Take" on Winnemucca 2002 under Special Events).

-I keep the pot as full as possible at all times.  Doing this keeps the head pressure constant, and this in turn reduces a possible variable in my bullets.  By preheating my 3-pound ingots over the melt, I can add an ingot to the melt and NOT have to stop casting for the pot temperature to recover.  It only drops the pot temp about 50-80 degrees, which is not enough to cause me any concern.  

The RCBS pot is a fine piece of work.  I'd sure hate to be without it.