Author Topic: a confession of stupidity  (Read 1174 times)

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Offline williamlayton

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a confession of stupidity
« on: October 17, 2003, 02:41:10 AM »
well boys take yer best shot, i'm a standing target--bout three feet away-anchored and can't move.
i just found out that a sig .357 wasn't a .357 mag--yea i know, duh!
well that puts and ened to tha .357 barrel in tha sig 239.
now tha question--what is the difference in tha charteristics of the .40 and sig .357  or is there any reason the sig .357 is a better round-fer any reason.
doan ask me why i didn't think about this cause i doan know--if'n i had thought, at all, i would have investigated. guess i should have realized somethin was different for them to call it a sig .357.
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Mikey

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Don't feel like that
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2003, 03:58:09 AM »
williamlayton:  hode it Pal, ya'll shouldn't feel like that at all, it's an easy mistake to make.

The 357 Sig cartridge is a 40 S&W case necked down to 9mm and is in a bottlenecked configuration.  It's a semi-auto round, not a revolver round. It is a great round for personal defense, Police work, or even small to medium game.  It takes a nominal 9mm 124/125 grain bullet at about 1400+ ft/sec - I think advertised at 1425'/sec, which is on par with hot loaded 38 Supers and the 9mmx23mm semi auto cartridge.  

All you need to convert a 40 S&W to 357 Sig is a barrel change.  I am a firm advocate of bottlenecked cartridges for Police or defense work as they are inherently more reliable for functioning and can be loaded with most any bullet style that would not/might not  function in a straight case semi auto.  You can do anything with the 357 Sig that you can do with a 38 Super or 9x23 and nobody in any frame of right mind laughs at those rounds.  You could probably even load properly sized wadcutter slugs for a fairly accurate plinking and small game load.

I have loaded heavy bullets in my 38 Super for years - I prefer a 160 grn round nose sized to 9mm (.356) for general plinking and fun shooting.  If I am hunting or carrying a 38 Super in the field I will usually load a 125 grain soft nose or a 115 grain hollow-point.  You can move the 115 grainers out at near 1450'sec or better.  The old Lyman loads for the 38 Super allowed a 160 grain bullet to move out at almost 1100'/sec, which was right about where the same weight bullet in 357 magnum was moving from a typical 4" barrelled revolver, so there was little or no practical diffrence between the 38 Super and the 357 magnum in that bullet weight from similar length barrels.  I do not know if anyone has experimented with the heavier bullet weight in the 357 Sig but do not see why it wouldn't move out there at about the same speed.  

If you were going to hunt varmit or carry a 357 Sig for defense it should serve you very well.  The only real problem is that most pistol chambered for that cartridge need adjustable sights and I don't know if most of them carry those.  

Hay pal - ain't nobody here gonna take shots at ya for mixing up those two rounds, least of all me.  Hay, let's not forget that Moderator Mikey here has a brother who mistook a 7.62x54R Russian for a 308 thinking he could use the 308 ammo from his Contender in a M44.  HTH.  Mikey.

Offline ShootnStr8

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a confession of stupidity
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2003, 06:06:39 AM »
williamlayton,

I absolutely agree with Mikey.  It is an easy mistake to make and fortunately one that didn't lead to injury.  I appreciate your candidly sharing what happened.  Such honesty in these forums can be extremely helpful to others.  Thanks for having the humility and courage to share your experience.  

Blessings!

ShootnStr8
There is a God shaped vacuum in the heart of every man which cannot be filled by any created thing, but only by God, the Creator, made known through Jesus.
--Blaise Pascal

Offline Black Jaque Janaviac

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a confession of stupidity
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2003, 06:38:08 AM »
In type .357mag and .357sig look similar.  But in your hand I think you would be wise enough not to load one in the other - and THAT is the mistake that needs avoiding.
Black Jaque Janaviac - Dat's who!

Hawken - the gun that made the west wild!

Offline williamlayton

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a confession of stupidity
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2003, 12:01:31 PM »
thanx fer tha encouragement boys--but i got ta tell ya i felt as stupid as a straight guy blunderin into a gay bar lookin fer a woman.
further lookin makes tha SIG--that is SIG .357 look pretty appealing for self defence. how is 220 dead presidents fer a new one sound?
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline CJ

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a confession of stupidity
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2003, 07:53:18 AM »
Depends on which presidents yer talkin about!!!!
NRA Lifer

Offline Questor

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a confession of stupidity
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2003, 11:20:35 AM »
For so long, when people referred to "357" it was understood to mean 357 magnum.  Now we have a lone exception out there and it confuses people. I expect the same kind of misunderstanding with the .270.
Safety first

Offline kciH

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a confession of stupidity
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2003, 10:32:35 PM »
Mikey,
the .357 Sig is not the cartridge that the .38 Super is when using heavy bullets.  I'm not saying it doesn't have it't place, as it surely does in the self defense realm.  The heavy bullets, of hich almost all are lead, would be a poor choice in the .357 Sig.  The bullet will protrude inside the case well beyond the neck and leave it's unprotected lead body to be ravaged by the burnig power.  Most lead bullet shooters know what that will do to the bullet and accuracy. The second issue is the pistols that the .357 Sig are chambered in, please don't compare them to a good 1911.


Hate to be a contrarian here, but it's pretty simple.  The .357 Sig is a good defensive cartridge, but it does not match the versatility of the 38 Super in a good pistol. I realize the Sig can be chambered in a 1911 style pistol, but it still has the downfall of not being able to use the heavy bullets to good effect. If the cost of a decent pistol are not the issue, and performance is, the .357 Sig is no .38 super.  Just my opinion.

Next week we'll discuss why the .40 S&W is no 10mm as far as being a good cartridge for more than shooting each other.

Offline williamlayton

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a confession of stupidity
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2003, 02:42:36 AM »
cj
$220.00
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Dave in WV

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a confession of stupidity
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2003, 03:23:34 AM »
Sig's idea behind the 357SIG was there are several small police depts. that wouldn't switch from 357 S&W mag revolvers because they didn't think any autos could match them in power. The 357SIG is close enough to a 357mag with a 124gr bullet to give them that edge the depts were looking for. I guess police dept contracts are quite competetive and SIG wanted the bit of business.
Setting an example is not the main means of influencing others; it is the only means
--Albert Einstein

Offline Mikey

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38 Super & 357 Sig
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2003, 05:28:16 AM »
kcih:  I knew I liked ya son, and thanks for clarifying that thought on heavy cast bullets in the Sig cartridge.  And, regarding the 40 S&W vs 10mm issue - ya'll won't get an argument from me on that topic but I will be glad to talk 10mms with ya'll, anytime.  This be Mikey.

Offline jamie

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a confession of stupidity
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2003, 08:35:12 AM »
WIlliam,
$220 is awsome for the complete gun but it is too much for just the .357 barrel.
AMMO...
LiFe, Liberty and the Pursuit of all those that threaten it!

Offline williamlayton

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a confession of stupidity
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2003, 01:13:32 AM »
yea-guess i should have spelled it out. $220 quoted price for the barrel.
blessings
TEXAS, by GOD