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Author Topic: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?  (Read 755 times)

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Offline kevinsmith5

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What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« on: October 18, 2009, 02:57:05 PM »
410 gr gas checked bullet in 45-70 over 48 gr Varget with a CCI 200 primer.  Popped and hissed and threw a 166 fps over the chronie.  Litle sticks of what was left of the powder scattered over the chronie, looked orange to yellow.  Some of it was left in the barrel. Other loads from the same loading session came out clean at 1350 fps.
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Offline woodchukhntr

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2009, 03:19:02 PM »
Perhaps you undercharged that case.  I was shooting mine .45-70 with light loads and had that happen (in front of a bunch of guys that I was demonstrating the load to, of course!).  I think that i didn't tip the rifle up before shooting to set the powder in place.
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2009, 03:24:02 PM »
Would that cause the partially burned powder?  Really wanna be sure I don't have this happen when critter I want dead is in front of it....
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Offline stubshaft

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2009, 04:15:00 PM »
Contaminated powder?  Maybe the interior of the case had some oil in it or if using cast boolits possible lube contamination.
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 12:26:03 AM »
Was a cast bullet.  Could sizing lube not being cleaned out well have done it? If so I may have to stop using the spray.
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Offline Grumulkin

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2009, 01:07:37 AM »
Quote from: kevinsmith5 on October 18, 2009, 02:57:05 PM
410 gr gas checked bullet in 45-70 over 48 gr Varget with a CCI 200 primer.  Popped and hissed and threw a 166 fps over the chronie.  Litle sticks of what was left of the powder scattered over the chronie, looked orange to yellow.  Some of it was left in the barrel. Other loads from the same loading session came out clean at 1350 fps.

Lets see:

1.  Very low velocity.
2.  A lot of powder residue.

These are both classic signs of low pressure; in your case VERY low pressure.  In fact, considering the velocity obtained, I think you're lucky the bullet even came out of the barrel.  It's probable that that cartridge had quite a bit less powder than you had intended.

Cast bullets would not cause this problem.  I suppose powder contamination could do it.  Powder contamination has never given me a problem but then I ALWAYS take care to remove all lube from the interior of cases before I reload them.
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Online Graybeard

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2009, 02:19:12 AM »
I would tend toward contamination either of powder or primer as the culprit in your case. The source of that contamination should be a serious concern for you in my opinion as well. You don't really want repeats of that bad situation. It could perhaps have been a light charge but I think contamination a more likely cause. It could be as simple as a blocked flash hole really that failed to allow enough of the primer flame to properly ignite the powder charge.

It's why it is so important to actually examine each case before you prime it to be sure the flash hole is clear and dthat there is nothing inside the case to contaminate the powder. It should be a regular part of your loading routine.
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2009, 02:26:06 AM »
I once had a similar issue with some 38 special loads. I'm not sure of the powder, but they were sensative to where the powder was in the case. If the powder was forward the primer would blow the bullet and powder out of the barrel. If back they would fire normally. Is there a lot of space in the case?
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2009, 04:15:54 AM »
Just checked on the Hogdon web site, and for a 400gr. bullet, 50grs. of Varget is bottom of the load data, so it looks like your below recommended starting load. gypsyman
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2009, 02:03:30 PM »
Load was from the Lyman book for Trapdoor loads. Actually the top of it.  I'll check the flash hole when I deprime. I did load it before I got flash hole reamer.
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Offline jhalcott

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2009, 02:20:10 PM »
 Low pressure caused by NOT crimping the case MIGHT be a part of the problem also. These things are like a diesel. They MUST have some pressure to operate correctly. There may be some contaminant isssues but that would leave the powder more like whats in the can. Seems as if the bullet AND powder moved before the flame got to it.
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2009, 02:27:55 PM »
roll crimped.
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Offline stimpylu32

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2009, 02:29:00 PM »
It could be as simple as a bad primer , even with all the QC that they have every once in awhile one slips through the cracks , or it could be one of the other things listed above , like a blocked flash hole or a light powder charge .  ???

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Offline hillbill

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2009, 02:31:06 PM »
im not a bigbore guy but sure sounds like greasy powder to me.if yu are spraying them yu know some of the spray got into the interior of the case.all the cases i reload get rolled on a cloth pad drizzeled with marvel mystery oil.for my failsafe hunting loads ill either throw them in the dishwasher in a mesh bag and dry near the woodstove or tumble them in my case tumbler to get any grease or oil off them.
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2009, 02:43:57 PM »
Next time you shoot some tip the end of the muzzle down and raise it up easy to have the powder  situated forward in the case. Try this and see if you can duplicate it. If you can make it happen this will tell you your problem, and they wouldn't b e very good of hunting loads.
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Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2009, 02:47:03 PM »
Since all the powder came form the same dispenser it doesn't seem likely that the powder was contaminated. Bad primer seems possible, but I had always heard the CCI's were the best. I'll check the flash hole (it was new brass).  And from now on all cases get a thorough drying and cleaning after sizing and before loading.
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Offline Terbltim

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2009, 01:55:16 PM »
I'd wager big money that misfire was the result of contaminated power.
Primers are nearly impossible to contaminate, (ask the manufacturers.) Don't worry about them.
There are enough replies here to help you determine what it "might" have been but "greasy powder" is a top suspect.
Was it only ONE cartridge or several?...(an important question.)
If you never get a repeat performance you may never know but an examination of preparations and techniques used will probably prevent a recurrence without solving the mystery.
You already [probably] solved the recurrence by making sure your cases are DRY.
Be very sure there is no lube getting into your cases while resizing, (an easy thing to happen if a lot of lube gets used or allowed to accumulate in the die.)
I had what you describe about 15 years ago with a small batch of 45/70.
After 2 shots in a row of what you describe I stopped, pulled the bullets and could plainly see that the powder was contaminated. The rest of that story is moot. I cleaned up my act and never saw it again.

"Trust in The Lord and keep your powder DRY!"
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Offline rugerman

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2009, 04:02:59 AM »
Back in the late 70's when I got my marlin 45-70 I had a similar problem. I bought a box of factory primmed brass and loaded them up with full charges of IMR 3031 and a 405 gr jsp bullet when i tried them they would go pop push the bullet just clear of the case and leave discolored powder in the case and when I opened the action it dropped down into the action. Then I had to get the bullet out of the barrell and the powder out of the action. After 3 tries I pulled the rest of the bullets and deprimmed the factory primmers and started over. No problems since also I do NOT buy factory primmed brass anymore (if they even sell it that way now). So I'd bet on primmer problems.
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Offline mechanic

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Re: What would cause this kind of "misfire"?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2009, 04:18:52 AM »
It was not undercharged.  I routinely shoot 40gr. Varget behind a 405 gr. bullet as a comfortable plinking load.  I'm leaning  toward the flash hole being partly blocked.  I also use spray sizing lube, and use lubed cast bullets, but have never had this issue, even with less than recommended charge data. 
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