mil dot scope?

[mrbigtexan]

whats your feelings about them? no brand in specific,  just mil dot reticles.

[Graybeard]

I like them for target/varmint use but kinda prefer to stick with a plex reticle on big game hunting rifles. I could live with them I guess if I hunted in well lighted open areas but in the dense woods and low light I'll take a plex.

[teddy12b]

I have a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x with the mildot.  I really like that scope for a number of reasons, and the reticle is one of them. 

I like a mildot because it's like grid paper, if I see a round kick up two dots over and half a dot down, I can make a quick adjustment and fire again hitting what I want to.  I do this all the time as I'm still trying to get better at judging wind at longer ranges. 

I also like that you can use it as a BDC, or ballistic plex reticle for the same purpose of hold over points, but it's not as good at that as the two I just mentioned.

Another thing I like, they just look cool and add a little fun factor to the shooting experience.

I took that scope black bear hunting over bait in the Ontario bush (which is similar to a jungle from what I've heard) and even at last light that scope & reticle were clear enough I could have taken a shot if the option would have been there.

[Bigeasy]

For varmints, where you have time to play around, and it's not the end of the world if you miss, the more complex recticle's are fine, but on a serious big game rifle, I like a plex.  Quick and easy to find.  It's not hard to judge the few inches you might have to hold over on a big game animal at 300 yards.  If your buck or bear is so far away, you need a complex set of hash marks in the scope to connect, maybe you should get a little closer?...

Larry

[anweis]

For varmints, where you have time to play around, and it's not the end of the world if you miss, the more complex recticle's are fine, but on a serious big game rifle, I like a plex.  Quick and easy to find.  It's not hard to judge the few inches you might have to hold over on a big game animal at 300 yards.  If your buck or bear is so far away, you need a complex set of hash marks in the scope to connect, maybe you should get a little closer?...

Larry

Larry and Greybeard, my opinion exactly. When that bull or buck shows up at 120 yards, it's no time to think of dots, clicks and other junk like that, let alone fiddle around with the scope and reticle.

[fr3db3ar]

I like them for the fact that you can know....crosshair = that distance, first dot = this distance.  I just mount a little note inside my flip cap for my different calibers.  Of course this only matters for longer distances.

[84Jim]

I like them for the fact that you can know....crosshair = that distance, first dot = this distance.

I have one on my varmit rifle and use the dots for hold over.  Also windage, but I'm not very good with estimating it

Another use, and I think what they were designed for, is range estimation.  A mil is 3.6 minutes, so if you can estimate the target size in increments of 36" (i.e. a deers chest is 18") you can calculate distance in your head if you're not too bad with math, and have memorized the formula.

http://www.mil-dot.com/

http://www.mil-dot.com/Content%20Images/The_Derivation_of_the_Range_Estimation_Equations.pdf

[Dave in WV]

"mil dot" reticles were designed for snipers. They work IF you learn how to use them. It involves math, patience, and time to calculate the correct hold over. There are other reticle designs when used with a laser range finder work better for the hunter IMHO. You still have to practice with your rifle no matter what reticle you use. There's no free lunch.

[teddy12b]

I agree that the reticle was designed for snipers and the new bdc & ballistic plex type are the easiest way for a common hunter to shoot longer range, but the mil-dot also has a place as a hunting scope.  I bought one of the mil-dot master slide rules & the book.  I look at it as an extra tool in case I ever hunt out west and a laser range finder gets broken or whatever.  At least that way there is an option left and not just up the creek.  I don't think it's the best reticle ever for hunting and definately not the best for a guy who isn't going to put in the time to learn how to use it, but for the guy who does put in the time, it is an absolutely valuable tool to have along with them. 

Where I hunt I can't even use my 30-06 so for me it's all theoretical out west hunting that I'll do someday.  When I did use mine bear hunting it was less than 100 yards so the mil-dot range finding offered me nothing.

[diggler1833]

I hate to say it, but more often than not your factory BDC reticle that was generically calibrated for standard or magnum calibers will be a bit off.  Like stated above, you need to practice to make sure that the 300yd hash mark on your scope actually hits dead on at 300 as well as the other hash marks for the other ranges etc...

Don't forget that a variable SFP scope will also mil only at a specified magnification.  Don't assume that if you are using a mildot scope that each dot will be reading accurately.  Also, in a SFP scope your BDC reticle that was dead on at 9x for a target downrange will be off when the scope is dialed in at a different power.

FFP rules for holdover reference reticles.

[mrbigtexan]

from what i have read, the dots are for range estimation only. after finding the range, you "dial in " your scope using the knobs. am i wrong about this. is it a totally different concept than "bdc"? if you use the dots as shooting references, approx. how far would the bottom dot put me out to using a 308? am i making any sense?

[teddy12b]

You're talking about two different concepts.

BDC/Ballistic Plex:  This setup is already in the scope with markings to represent the approximate points of impact at different distances.  It's up to the shooter to verify the actual points of impact from these holdover marks.

Mil-Dot:  This is a measuring system that can also be used as a holdover setup, but not nearly as well designed for holdovers as the BDC or Ballistic Plex.  The mil-dots are spaced at equal distances from each other for measuring, where the BDC or Ballistic Plex marks will be farther apart the greater the distance.   

With the 308 either the BDC or Ballistic Plex is supposed to have you pretty close out to 500 yards.  Does that kind of help?

[mrbigtexan]

well, i have ruled out the bdc type because they have no reference for wind holdover.

[teddy12b]

The windage holdover is was comes with lots of practice.

[84Jim]

Mr. Big,

I think the mil dots could be very useful for .308 holdovers out to 500 yds. with a 200 yd. zero.  Each mil represents 3.6 minutes, so at 300 yds a 1 mil holdover represents 3 x 3.6 = 10.8 inches, 2 mils at 400 is 4 x 2 x 3.6 = 28.8 inches, and 3 mils at 500 is 5 x 3 x 3.6 = 54.0 inches.  My trajectory tables show a 30 cal 168 bt with a muzzel vel. of 2600 fps. and a 200 yd. zero drop 9.4 inches at 300, 27.2 inches at 400, and 55.0 inches at 500.  If you're a sniper, or a deer hunter, the difference isn't going to matter that much.

My personal experience is with a .223.  I've zeroed my gun at 200 and 500 yds. My come up at 500 yds. was 10.5 minutes, or 52.5 inches.  I'm convinced that the 1, 2 and 3 dot holdovers will get me pretty close for 300, 400, and 500 yds.  I only took 1 300 yd. shot at a groundhog this summer, and missed so I can't prove it.

Jim

[teddy12b]

Bullet weight plays a huge part in all of this.  I was shooting 69gr bullets in my 223 AR 16" barrel and the ballistic plex was set for a 55gr bullet out of a much longer barrel.  I zeroed for 200 yards with my load and the last mark was good at 500 yards.  The bdc or ballistic plex still takes work and practice to get familiar with, but it does get rid of the kentucky windage holdover.