Author Topic: cannon ball sinkers?  (Read 1751 times)

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Offline PaulB

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cannon ball sinkers?
« on: October 27, 2009, 02:58:30 AM »
Hi, I'm new here but I've had a 1/3 scale SBR sea service cannon for quite a few years.  I've been shooting 1 3/16 ball bearings out of it but would like to find a better round and have been looking at the "cannon ball sinker molds. Does any one have any experience with them? It  looks like a 6 oz is 1.2" which would still be a little loose but not as bad as the bearings. Thanks

Offline Double D

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2009, 04:07:28 AM »
Time for cannonball 101.

What is the diameter of your bore?

We have some rules of thumb we use to help is get started and keep us safe, one of those is widnage.  The rule of thumb for cannons is 1/40th.  Divided the bore of your cannon by 40 that number is your rule of thumb windage.  Multiply this number by 39 and you have your rule of thumb diameter for your projectile.

You want windage so an out of round ball will still roll down the bore of your cannon and not get stuck. You should have a ball gauge that is bore diameter and three or four calibers long to check each ball before you put it in your bore. This is especially important with fishing sinker balls as the or frequently out of round.

When you get above one inch or so you really want to be careful with making balls out of lead.  The mass of the lead can raise pressures pretty fast.  So if you get a lead projectile, you want to reduce your loads substantially from what you had with a steel ball. Rocklock should be along prety quick and post a link to the website he uses for steel balls.

I alway push for zinc balls.  More and more zinc is showing up in the form of wheel weights so it's getting easier to find.    Zinc unlike lead doesn't deform as easily as lead and won't bounce as badly as steel.  The plus in that is that zinc ball can often recovered and reshot as is.

As you get better quality projectiles and learn more about shooting your cannon you can adjust your projectile size and reduce windage.

You might contact our sponsors for a mould to fit your cannon. You will find them listed in the sticky at the top of the forum for sponsors.

Soon, I hope Matt Switlik should be publishing his latest edition of his Cannon shooting book. It's primary focus is full size guns, but it all can be applied to our little guns.

Welcome to our board!

   

Offline dynomike

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2009, 04:08:25 AM »
What ever company you are looking at queston there dia. The ones i have delt with were like 1/8" under. 2 1/4= 2 1/8.

Offline PaulB

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2009, 01:41:37 PM »
DD, Thanks for the welcome! the bore on my little gun is 1.25" it is a cast iron casting  with a steel liner. I generally load 250gr fg behind a ball or 500gr fg for a blank load. The steel balls are expensive so I'm looking for a cheaper alternative. I've read the recommendations re: windage and feel the 1  3/16" balls are too  sloppy although I think they would shoot pretty good with a sabot.

dynomike, thanks  I was wondering if the sinker molds were actually the size they say and if they were round. Between yours and DD's answer I get the feeling that you get what you pay for.

Offline BoomLover

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2009, 05:28:25 PM »
Double D is right, Zinc is a great way to go, and it is 40% lighter than lead, so you can use a bit less powder. Hilts Molds has the cannon ball sinkers and molds to cast your own, plus this forum has lots of great manufactures who can supply you with most whatever you need. And, Welcome to the forum! BoomLover
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Offline Evil Dog

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2009, 05:56:05 PM »
Uh..... Hilts molds can not be used when casting zinc balls.  You need a steel mold, not aluminum.
Evil Dog

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Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)

Offline BoomLover

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2009, 06:19:44 PM »
Whoops, thanks, Evil Dog, I didn't think that one thru! U R so right!
"Beware the Enemy With-in, for these are perilous times! Those who promise to protect and defend our Constitution, but do neither, should be evicted from public office in disgrace!

Offline artillerybuff

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2009, 02:14:10 AM »
Yes, zinc is ideal because it is fairly easy to work with and is nearly identical in weight to iron.  When I was at Camp Grayling in July this year everybody I talked to was using zinc ammo from the big smoothbores & rifled guns right on down to the mortars.

Lead is still viable in certain cases because it is still plentiful, inexpensive, and casts at much lower temps than zinc (your regular lead melting pot will not melt zinc).  Lead balls actually work very well in a properly made full size 3" Ordnance Rifle or 2.9" Parrott (smoothbore).  The lead ball ends up weighing just under 6 lbs. and with proper windage will develop FAR less pressure than a 10 lb. bolt with sabot.  It is very accurate too.  In fact, using a custom made round shot mold shooting at 600 yards this year our rifled Parrott had very little advantage over our smoothbore Parrott, both were consistently hitting the 600 yard target.  I was actually quite surprised how well the smoothbore did.

However, as already mentioned above by others, I would not recommend using lead over zinc, iron, or steel in a smoothbore piece such as a 3 Pdr. to 6 Pdr. cannon as the weight will exceed the original load.  This is not the case in an originally rifled piece and that is the exception.  I know the N-SSA people will disagree with me, but then again they do not shoot service loads or long distance so light loads work fine for them at 100 or 200 yards.

The key to casting your own be it lead or zinc, is you must start out with a quality mold.  Fishing sinker rounds will not cut it.

As far as recovering ammo, the smoothbores we shoot have a major advantage as they are very easy to find laying near the target area on the backstop.  However, my rifled Parrott bolts end up being buried approximately 5 feet deep in the mountainside and for all intent and purpose are a total loss.  This is why I am no longer interested in shooting the big rifled guns at anything less than 1,000 yards.

Cheers~   Anthony Variz

Offline Zulu

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2009, 04:45:42 AM »
I was able to melt zinc on my crawfish burner.  I used a heavy wall pot made out of a piece of pipe and cast 3" balls.  I had to keep a cover on the pot.
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Offline artillerybuff

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2009, 06:11:12 AM »
I was able to melt zinc on my crawfish burner.  I used a heavy wall pot made out of a piece of pipe and cast 3" balls.  I had to keep a cover on the pot.
Zulu

Great idea for an inexpensive casting setup.  Uses propane burners right?

My main melting pot is a an industrial quality 220 volt 90 lb. capacity pot with down pour using orifice plates to vary the flow for casting bullets or small sinkers and I use a large bottom pour ladle for casting large shot, however, it does not get near hot enough to melt zinc (it wasn't designed to).

What size pipe do you use (I.D., O.D., length, etc.) and how long does it take to melt enough zinc to cast large 3" balls?

Thanks~   Anthony

Offline Zulu

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2009, 06:47:51 AM »
Yes it is propane powered.  The pot is 10" I.D. and 10 3/4" O.D. so it has 3/8" walls.  It is 10" tall.  I used a 1/4" steel plate for a lid.  I don't remember how long it took to melt but I don't recall it being overly long.  My mould is machined steel and was made by a friend.  I asked for 2.95" diameter but I think it is a little smaller than that.  I have made lead balls with it also but after 5 or 6 balls they tend to sag a little when I dump them out because the mould gets too hot.  I guess I should wait longer to dump them but if I cut the propane off I have to reheat.
I have made zinc and lead balls at home and even some aluminum balls at a friend's foundry.  The aluminum balls weighed 1.1 lbs. so are pretty light nut they look cool in a stack.
Zulu
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Offline Evil Dog

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2009, 05:18:23 AM »
Those large burners do work well for melting zinc.  Check with your local propane supplier for an ADJUSTABLE REGULATOR, it will really make a difference.  Most propane regulators such as come with the back yard barbeque have a fixed pressure output.  The adjustable ones have an adjustment knob and can be set from 0 to around 15 or 20 pounds output pressure.  Can put out a lot more heat that way.
Evil Dog

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Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)

Offline 1Southpaw

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Evil Dog
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2009, 05:55:03 AM »
pounds or ounces on the regulator ?
Left Handed people are in their right mind .

Offline Evil Dog

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Re: cannon ball sinkers?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2009, 01:58:39 PM »
I believe that it is a PSI designation.  Doesn't have a gauge, I just adjust it for the flame height I want.
Evil Dog

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)