Author Topic: Post '64 Reblue (Read 1816 times)

GLHolmes · « **on:** October 19, 2009, 01:59:10 PM »

Has anyone ever had a post 1964 Winchester Model 94 reblued? If so, did the receiver turn somewhat purple?
Thanks.

Dee · « **Reply #1 on:** October 19, 2009, 02:08:04 PM »

I've never had one done, BUT I HEARD ABOUT IT.

GLHolmes · « **Reply #2 on:** October 19, 2009, 02:21:15 PM »

The gunsmith I talked to about it said that even if it did turn to that purple tint, it wouldn't look too bad. The guy who owned it before me etched his name and ssn into the receiver (make me cry) and it's pretty worn all over, so I'm pretty sure anything would look better than what it currently looks like. The gunsmith is pretty confident that he can wheel and buff the etching out.

Dee · « **Reply #3 on:** October 19, 2009, 02:23:47 PM »

My show a lot of wear also but, I have carried it since 1958. My uncle took one in and had it redone. The chrome plated the receiver, and blued the rest. After chroming the receiver it was bead blasted. It looks good.

LONGTOM · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2009, 06:22:22 AM »

Have seen many reblues on post 64 84s and yes they were all purple.
Doesn't hurt anything, just don't look right.
Don't know if they would take color case treatment well or not.
Just a thought.
The chrome or a nickle finish wouldn't look so bad.

LONGTOM

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2009, 06:24:58 AM »

Yep , had one that was like that , Gunsmith applied an oxide finish and it was great no glare at all to spook deer .

GLHolmes · « **Reply #6 on:** October 20, 2009, 04:59:34 PM »

I imagine that chrome-plating the receiver would cost some more money??? Also, would you think a gunsmith who does rebluing work would have the chrome-plating capability??? My gunsmith said that a full reblue (including the receiver) is going to cost me between $150-$160...sound reasonable to everyone?
So in your opinion, Shootall, the purple finish doesn't look too bad?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #7 on:** October 21, 2009, 01:51:25 AM »

NO I think it makes the gun look like a cheap import . I had mine black oxide coated and loved it for hunting as it cut out all glare and bright surfaces .

GLHolmes · « **Reply #8 on:** October 21, 2009, 03:52:14 AM »

Just the receiver oxide coated, or the whole gun?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2009, 04:42:09 AM »

every thing but the plastic butt plate and wood . Gave it a real business look !

GLHolmes · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2009, 06:08:27 AM »

You've gotten me interested in the oxide coating! Should all of the metal be reblued first and then get the oxide finish, or does the oxide take the place of the rebluing job? Also, how much would you think the oxide coating would cost me?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** October 21, 2009, 07:19:54 AM »

The gun i had had some minor pitting on the side . The gunsmith said it would cost less to sand blast it and coat it with oxide than re-blue it . Brownell's has the coatings in a can now check them out . I kept/hunted with the gun for about 5 years and never had a problem with it rain or shine .

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #12 on:** October 21, 2009, 11:19:17 AM »

I had a model 94 I bought in 1969, new. It was a piece of junk, it would jam two cartridges together if you short stroked it (unlike the 1958 94 a friend had). The receiver was blued, but more like a paint over chrome plating. The chrome started to peel off and it looked like heck. One rifle I was glad to get rid of!

-WH-

GLHolmes · « **Reply #13 on:** October 21, 2009, 11:27:18 AM »

I appreciate all the input...If anyone has pics of a reblued, oxide coated, or chromed post 1964 Model 94 I'd love to see them. Thanks all!

mannyrock · « **Reply #14 on:** October 23, 2009, 05:20:23 AM »

Homes,

A friend of mine had a post 64 model 94 that was in really bad shape. He decided to reblue it with a home bluing kit. He used standard 44/40 Bluing, which is a very very reputable product, and normally gives a very dark, almost black, bluing.

The reciever turned purple I don't mean "kinda purple", I mean PURPLE! The color of a plum. Terrible.

After some research, he was advised that Winchester used some sort of powdered steel compound, to make those receivers. They didn't start with a billet of solid steel, but used a powder to mix together like concrete and make the billet. This is why they turn purple.

Don't even think of rebluing. It will be a total waste of money and you will be left with a rifle that will actually look worse than a beat up rifle.

I highly recomment that you go with the black oxide route. No, you won't have to get it reblued first.

Also, if you are handy with gunsmithing, I think that Brownells sells a black oxide kit that you can use at home, which involves applying the oxide and then "baking" the part in an oven. I have seen people use this to re-do cheap .22 rifles that were headed for the dump, and they looked really good. So, you might want to research this. You could pay a gunsmith to simply take the gun apart. Then you could do the home bake job, and then you could pay a gunsmith to re-assemble the rifle. Using this home kit, you do not bead blast the rifle. Check out a Brownell's catalog for their products.

Hope this info helps.

Mannyrock

GLHolmes · « **Reply #15 on:** October 23, 2009, 12:39:50 PM »

Is the black oxide coating more commonly referred to as a "parkerized" finish?

mannyrock · « **Reply #16 on:** October 23, 2009, 01:45:42 PM »

I will leave this to the experts, but in my experience, NO. Black oxide is not commonly referred to as a parkerized finish.

The term parkerized is, I believe, a long standing finish used by the military (and its contractors) on military weapons, at least since WWI. It uses some sort of salt chemical, and the resulting finish can come out in alot of difference colors, such as light green, dark green, light grey, dull gun metal, and dark grey, but not black.

Go to a gunshow, and look at the M-1 carbines, M-1 Garands, and Springfiled 1903-A3 rifles, and you will see all of the differents shades of parkerizing, even among the same model of rifle.

The black oxide finishes I have seen are very black, or a dark charcoal grey, are matte (not shiney), and have a slightly crinkly appearance. Think: "dark black dull finished spray paint" look.

Regards,

Mannyrock

Keith L · « **Reply #17 on:** October 23, 2009, 03:12:14 PM »

Quote from: mannyrock on October 23, 2009, 05:20:23 AM

After some research, he was advised that Winchester used some sort of powdered steel compound, to make those receivers. They didn't start with a billet of solid steel, but used a powder to mix together like concrete and make the billet. This is why they turn purple.

The process is called sintering, and it involved powdered metal, heat and pressure. It can be made with crisp detail and requires little or no machining, saving cost. If done correctly it will have plenty of strength and is a good method to make many things. You should get good use out of it no matter how it looks.

Rumor has it that Winchester used the sintered receivers for a few years, chrome plating the later ones so the bluing looked more realistic. I haven't done lots of research on this, just what I have been told. I had a late model angle eject that I don't think had a sintered receiver, but maybe did. It had so many other problems I got rid of it early. I know my 9422M has a machined steel one.

GLHolmes · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2009, 03:39:55 PM »

Well, I talked to the gunsmith this morning, and here's what I got (he was quite certain about this and has been in the business for a number of years).

Black oxide coating would not eliminate the reddish-purple receiver, period. It's the same process as hot-blueing, just with the gun sand-blasted ahead of time to give the rougher/matte finish.
According to him, I have two options: leave it the way it is or get a reddish/purple receiver. With the metal as rough as it is, I decided to go ahead and have him do a standard hot-blue.
We'll see how it turns out--I'll post pictures when it is done.
Thanks again for all the input.

mannyrock · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2009, 04:43:41 PM »

Good luck with your reblue job. However, your gunsmith did not give you accurate advice.

Black oxide finishes are not just a sandblasted metal, plus a regular type of hot blue. They are totally different.

And, the home bake-on dark oxide blue kits sold by Brownells cetainly do not call for sandblasting your gun before or after applying the finish.

And, there are other proprietary finishes, from companies such as Robar, that can apply different finishes to a gun, such as teflon, which is not a reblue process.

Your gunsmith told you the two things that HE knew how to do, . . . not all of the options that are out there in the gun world.

Again, though, I hope your reblue turns out great.

Best, Mannyrock

LONGTOM · « **Reply #20 on:** October 30, 2009, 05:18:30 PM »

I still say a dull nickle finish would look fine.

LONGTOM

mannyrock · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2009, 04:36:26 AM »

Longtom,

I agree. But, I think GL was at a point where he had make a decision on this, and couldn't waste anymore time fooling around with it. I've certainly had this happen to me before. And, its possible that his reblue will come out OK, so let's all hope for the best and look for the future pictures.

Best,
Mannyrock

calinb · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2009, 08:42:11 PM »

Quote from: GLHolmes on October 30, 2009, 03:39:55 PM

We'll see how it turns out--I'll post pictures when it is done.

Yes please and thanks! I have a post-64 and your experiences may prove very useful to me one day. If you can find out what bluing salts or formula he uses, all the better. I had great results on a small revolver cylinder that I hot blued with a lye and nitrate of soda solution. However, I've seen many other bluing salts recipes and the composition of the bluing salts probably affects the result as much as the peculiarities of the metal.

-Cal

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** November 02, 2009, 02:07:25 AM »

the black oxide was a type bluing with the sand blasting first and on the gun i had it did infact hide the purple .

GLHolmes · « **Reply #24 on:** November 02, 2009, 05:54:14 AM »

Thanks for the understanding, Mannyrock.

I was able to look at a used 94 at the local sporting goods store that had had its receiver either nickle or chrome-plated. I really did not care for it; it didn't seem durable, it was bubbling in a few places and showed fingerprints worse than any blueing I had ever seen before. Furthermore, I hope to do quite a bit of hunting with this gun and that shine is really not desirable in that regard.

As far as the pictures go, the gunsmith said it should certainly be done by next spring (he waits until he's got four or five guns to reblue all at the same time).

I'm hoping for the best, but prepared for the worst! I still think that either result would look worlds better than its current condition, and at least I won't be caught off guard by a purple receiver.