Author Topic: Pistol Caliber in Rifle Proposal - Michigan (Read 3650 times)

Muddyboots · « **on:** June 11, 2009, 03:34:42 PM »

All,
I have just made a proposal to 59th District Matt Lori on the use of pistol calibers in rifles for state of Michigan. I met with Rep. Lori on June 8th and he liked what he heard and indicated he will bring it to committee for review and proposal. The proposal would allow straight wall pistol calibers up to 1.8" maximum case length (.460 S&W Mag OK). The basic discussion centered on increasing recruitment to hunting for youth and woman hunters as result of having pistol calibers that would provide effective hunting capability with less recoil thus accuracy. Obviously, there are pistol calibers that thump even in rifle but there are many that don't and are effective. Economics would be a positive impact with more recruitment, firearms sold, ammo etc. Safety and enforcement is not affected since calibers are already in effect in handguns. Please contact your district rep's to inform them of this proposal that will be coming and their support would be appreciated. Please feel free to contact me if you would like more info. This has a real chance of moving forward if Rep. Lori sees some additional support. We all have been talking so now is the time to walk to the talk.
Thanks,
Muddyboots

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2009, 01:11:55 AM »

I take it your refering to the shotgun only zones as up here we can allready use them.

teddy12b · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2009, 02:23:10 AM »

Pistol cartridge rifles did wonders for Indiana. Everytime someone holds my 44mag they say they want to go buy one. There's just something more enjoyable about hunting with a rifle. You're right about helping the economy too. In Indiana after the word got out about the new rules the rifles were very hard to find.

Muddyboots · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2009, 03:33:06 PM »

That is correct, I am referring to the southern Michigan shotgun zone. Please circulate as much as possible.
Thanks,
Muddyboots

Muddyboots · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2009, 11:47:18 AM »

Proposal is passing hurdles and looks pretty favorable it will be making it into a draft bill this year. Will keep you posted if and when it gets to draft stage.
Muddyboots

Scibaer · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2009, 01:52:14 AM »

muddyboots,
see my post in the TC/Contender forum, along with other comments.
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,175562.0.html

pistols are currently permitted in the shot gun zone. In the shotgun zone, Legal firearms are among other guns are, A conventional handgun must be .35 caliber or larger and loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single-or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.

your idea consists of is amending the current regulations to include using "medium to large caliber pistol cartridges in rifles" in the shotgun zone. this would allow "recoil sensative" people to take advantage of zone 3 hunting. for an example: a .44mag lever action rifle, a .357mag or max H&R or some other comparable configuration of firearm.

where are you at with this now ?

Muddyboots · « **Reply #6 on:** July 10, 2009, 10:52:52 AM »

Scibaer,
Proposal is still moving forward at the hands of Rep. Matt Lori of the 59th District and may have chance for promulgation for this years hunting season. Here is the text of the proposal:

Legal firearms are as follows:
A shotgun may have a smooth or rifled barrel and may be of any gauge.
·   A muzzleloading rifle or black powder handgun must be loaded with black powder or a commercially manufactured black powder substitute.
·   A conventional (smokeless powder) handgun must be .35 caliber or larger and loaded with straight-walled cartridges and may be single- or multiple-shot but cannot exceed a maximum capacity of nine rounds in the barrel and magazine combined.
·   Rifles with pistol cartridges must fire a straight-walled cartridge with a bullet of .35 caliber or larger; have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and have a maximum case length of 1.80 inches. These rifle cartridges can be used only during the deer firearms season.

It is passing through the steps needed to get in front of committee so I am hopeful it will go through this year.
Craig

teddy12b · « **Reply #7 on:** July 10, 2009, 10:56:41 AM »

I really hope it works out for you all. People in Michigan need some kind of good news.

Scibaer · « **Reply #8 on:** July 10, 2009, 04:48:44 PM »

Muddyboots,
your proposal is worded and aimed just like i was hoping it would be, you have my full support. i read your comments in the other thread titled "all", and you have a solid idea with real potential. let me thank you for taking on this monumental task to improve the hunting oppertunities for all of us here in michigan.
please keep me informed as to what is going on with this. my direct e-mail is scibaer at yahoo dot com . if i can help, for updates or whatever.

Muddyboots · « **Reply #9 on:** July 15, 2009, 10:35:56 AM »

All,
One more hurdle and added support. As hoped, MUCC has no issue with proposal so it is moving forward to draft soon... I hope. Just keep plugging along and I know we will get there soon.
Craig

Scibaer · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2009, 03:00:30 PM »

thats exellent news

burntmuch · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2009, 03:03:21 PM »

Guess I need to load up some more 357 max

Muddyboots · « **Reply #12 on:** August 12, 2009, 01:16:14 PM »

Just an update: Still not out of bill writing committee. Willing to bet the economic condition in MI has slowed down this bill. Right now I am not sure if it will get through this year but am still hopeful and still pressing to get it done. Confident enough to order a .460 SW from MGM in next couple days once I settle on throat specs. Will keep y'all up to snuff.
Craig

teddy12b · « **Reply #13 on:** August 13, 2009, 02:44:20 AM »

Even if it doesn't get passed this year, it's a step in the right direction. There are many rumors flying around about Indiana trying to add the 30-30 to the list of legal hunting guns. They didn't get it in this year, but if it gets in next year it'll still be worth all the effort.

Scibaer · « **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2009, 01:51:20 PM »

lets keep pushing forward .. sure would be nice to have that pass.

sure glad i dont live in Indiana .....

teddy12b · « **Reply #15 on:** August 14, 2009, 03:09:27 PM »

Quote from: Scibaer on August 14, 2009, 01:51:20 PM

lets keep pushing forward .. sure would be nice to have that pass.

sure glad i dont live in Indiana .....

How is Michigan better than Indiana? Indiana already has the pistol cartridge rifles, and there are jobs here too. Michigan does have better fishing though.

Scibaer · « **Reply #16 on:** August 19, 2009, 03:39:34 PM »

i never said indiana was better.. the old 30-30 is standard fare in michigan. not being able to use it hunting ? glad i live where i can use it.
nothing meant by my statement other then that,

teddy12b · « **Reply #17 on:** August 20, 2009, 02:20:17 AM »

Quote from: Scibaer on August 19, 2009, 03:39:34 PM

i never said indiana was better.. the old 30-30 is standard fare in michigan. not being able to use it hunting ? glad i live where i can use it.
nothing meant by my statement other then that,

I don't blame you for wanting to hunt with a 30-30. Rumors have it that Indiana is working on that also. The 30-30 is a great caliber with plenty of history and I'd love to hunt with it in my home state. I'm hoping that maybe I'll be able to sneak up to the UP this fall for a quick 3 day deer hunt. There aren't a whole lot of deer up there, but I just love it up there.

Scibaer · « **Reply #18 on:** August 20, 2009, 03:40:46 AM »

i do hunt with my 30-30 regularly. i have a marlin, model 336 regular carbine, made in 1947 or 49 ( the exact date slips my mind just now ).
yeah the deer are thin in some spots in the upper, in other spots they are everywhere. last year i hunted in the rock area and deer were right on top of us, we literally watched them from our camp window.
and you are lucky to be able to hunt with pistol cartridge rifles. we can do that too, just not in the shotgun/bow/handgun zone.

teddy12b · « **Reply #19 on:** August 20, 2009, 04:39:34 AM »

Most of where I've hunted in the U.P. has been in the middle of the U.P. Up there I don't think too many people let deer walk on by and there's always a lot of gunfire in the distance.

I just like how remote it is up there more than anything else.

fr3db3ar · « **Reply #20 on:** August 20, 2009, 04:44:34 AM »

Muddy, I assume you're on Michigan Gun Owners as well? I haven't seen this over there. If it's not and you're not...that is another good place to get support.

Muddyboots · « **Reply #21 on:** August 20, 2009, 03:21:05 PM »

Another update: Just reviewed draft bill today, looks fine as drafted so maybe we will get lucky after all and have it for this season. Will keep you posted. Am getting excited over possibilities. I know lots of folks would prefer to have even 30/30 included but based upon conversations I have had, any bottleneck would have killed any possibility of even having rifle configuration.
Muddyboots

Muddyboots · « **Reply #22 on:** September 18, 2009, 12:28:50 PM »

The bill was posted up today on MI website. The bill number is HB 5416 and it will have to be put through the House Journal for its first reading, and then be assigned to a committee, which will probably happen next week. Still a chance for this year but depends upon how much support it gets or opposition. Everyone still believes it will go through as written.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=2009-HB-5416

Please contact your representative and express support for HB 5416 and maybe we can get it through this year. Although thre are plenty of sponsors for this bill, it wouldn't hurt to get more influence.

When you talk to your representative, please consider using the following arguments:

Indiana already allows pistol calibers in rifle configuration.

The current MI regulation allows the use of a handgun with straight wall pistol cartridge.

A rifle chambered in a pistol cartridge will provide a better opportunity to bring in youth and female hunters since the recoil from these cartridges will be significantly less than a 12 gauge or 20 gauge shotgun slug.

A rifle will be more accurate that a shotgun, thus, improve deer recovery. The reduced recoil will allow both youth and female hunters to shoot more accurately as well.

A pistol cartridge that is currently allowed under MI regulations in a rifle will not significantly change ballistics of same cartridge.

There is no cost or risk to MI for this change.

There will be economic benefit for new hunters, firearms, ammunition and tourism.

Thanks in advance to all that will contact legislative representatives to support this bill.
Regards,
Craig

Scibaer · « **Reply #23 on:** September 19, 2009, 01:52:42 AM »

thats great news !
we have a new DMU 486 that covers the entire shotgun zone now, and this new legislation will fit in really nice with that.

Muddyboots · « **Reply #24 on:** October 05, 2009, 12:59:08 PM »

Seems like a good time to update status.

History (House actions in lowercase, Senate actions in UPPERCASE)
Date    Journal   Action
9/17/2009   HJ 75 Pg. 1574   introduced by Representative Matt Lori
9/17/2009   HJ 75 Pg. 1574   read a first time
9/17/2009   HJ 75 Pg. 1574   referred to Committee on Tourism, Outdoor Recreation and Natural Resources
9/22/2009   HJ 76 Pg. 1585   printed bill filed 09/18/2009

The bill is now in hands of Committee on Tourism, Outdoor Recreation and Natural Resources. I don't know if it will make it out in time for this years firearm season or not. Slim chance but still a possibility. I have asked MUCC to jump on board as well. So far, I haven't heard of any negative comments so this can be hopeful news. Here is a link to track it.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(b2ngin45zzcqfa451ziske55))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2009-HB-5416
Muddyboots

Michiganiac · « **Reply #25 on:** October 07, 2009, 01:40:38 PM »

Muddyboots,

I'm of the opinion this isn't going anywhere until the legislature gets the budget figured out... which means I'm not holding my breath on this going anywhere for this season, but it does bode well for next year... which also means the tax return can go toward a .44 rifle and a new scope in anticipation of 2010 deer season.

In the meantime, what can we do to build some grass roots momentum?

PM me, I'm ready to mobilize!

Muddyboots · « **Reply #26 on:** October 15, 2009, 03:27:23 PM »

Michiganiac,
Just had an update from my rep and it is still alive and has widespread support with other legislators so still kicking. I just provided additional support with Indiana's rifle draft rule position (Indiana rifle rule was passed and has been in effect for 2 years) which was very good and provides nice State DNR position on all aspects of rifle safety. This is what we need is a State DNR position that provides technical support. Also sent them PA's study on rifles versus shotguns and muzzleloaders which also gave the technical support that is needed. So who knows it may get through this year. Bottom line is good technical evidence from other DNR departments supports this initiative which has far more weight than whatever any of us can say.
Muddy

Michiganiac · « **Reply #27 on:** November 03, 2009, 01:42:45 PM »

Good to know - I've been busy trying to arrow the big one for the last two weeks, so I haven't been on this site much. I'll keep my fingers crossed and say some prayers that common sense and good science prevail.