Author Topic: very interesting info on mortar vs howitzer accuracy and how "dangerous" it was  (Read 1577 times)

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Offline dan610324

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On 4 October 1846 Lieutenant Colonel C.B. Despard, commander of the British Force in New Zealand, reported the arrival at the Headquarters of the 58th Regiment in New Zealand with four mortars "….which had been cast in Sydney…". On 4 November he reported the arrival of a detachment of the 99th Regiment with military stores and "…three more mortars…",

When the fighting died down, Mann sought reimbursement for the expenses involved in the production of his mortars. To support his claim, Colonel Despard wrote:

"They were found very useful and very efficacious in throwing shells into the pa at Ruapekapeka when placed in battery at a distance of not more than three hundred and fifty yards, but beyond that distance, when tried, they were found uncertain. On the whole, I consider that they did us good service, and that very few instances occurred in which a shell thrown from them did not fall within the pa, which was not the case on a former occasion when scarcely one in five of those from the Iron 12 Pound Howitzers fell within the enemy's works."

An old chief of the Ngapuhi tribe commented on the mortars:

"These guns [i.e the mortars] had shot which were hollow exactly like a calabash [a gourd], and they were full of gun- powder, and they came tumbling into the pa one after another, and they would hardly be on the ground before they would burst with a great noise, and no sooner would one burst than another would burst; and so they came one after another so fast they the people in the pa could get no rest, and were getting quite deaf.

These guns, however, never killed anyone. They are a very vexatious invention for making people deaf and preventing them from getting any sleep. One good thing about them is that whenever one of the shots does not burst, a considerable number of charges of powder for a musket can be got out of it; and whenever one dropped close to one of the men in the pa he would pull out the wicki [fuse], and then get out the powder…"

By 1847 the Maoris in the Wellington area were subdued and, in turn, the Coehorn mortars were placed in storage. In the wars with the Maoris from 1860 to 1864 the Coehorn mortars were again in use. During the Tauranga Campaign of 1864 Colonel Williams, Commander of the Royal Artillery wrote to Gother Kerr Mann:

"On the 20th April last, I drew your mortars from the store, tried one and embarked four with guns and stores for Tauranga. We had an opportunity of using them in a breastwork about 100 yards from the enemy's work on the evening of the assault. We considered them very useful pieces and are pleased with the accuracy of their fire."


Characteristics of the 5 ˝ inch Brass Mortar and cast iron bed:

Content of Chamber 9 ounces (255g)

Effective Range 550 yards (503m)

Weight - Brass Mortar 54 pounds (24.49 kg), Cast Iron Base 70 pounds (31.75kg)

Length of Base 14 ˝ inches (370mm)


Army Museum of New South Wales appreciates the assistance of Brigadier P.J. Greveille, CBE in the preparation of this text.
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline broadarrow

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Hi dan610324,

Further to what you have posted, this came from a military historian here in Oz,

In September 1845, a sample of Australia’s first production of Muzzle Loading Ordnance arrived in New Zealand. Designed in Sydney by Captain Gother Kerr Mann, a retired officer of the Royal Bombay Horse Artillery, and cast in the Sydney foundry of Peter Nicol Russell, these mortars were despatched to New Zealand in time to see service in the Maori wars against Hone Heke and Kawiti at Ruapekapeka, otherwise known as the Bat’s Nest.                                                     

The basic brief for the design was it had to be portable and capable of being carried by two to three men and had to have a sufficient accurate range so as to be capable of throwing shells into an enclosure or a body of men at 500 to 600 yards. The best testimony of its use came from an old Chief of the Ngapuhi tribe who said “The shells came tumbling in one after another and they would hardly be on the ground when they would burst with a great noise, this happened so fast that the people could get no rest from the noise and were getting quite deaf."                                                                                                  

It is not known what happened to the original mortars that were produced and none are thought to have survived, but, one possibility that was floated from a source in New Zealand is that at the time these fell into disuse there were arms buyers scouring the globe trying to buy arms for the Confederacy, and one possibility is that they ended up leaving New Zealand by ship bound for the South,

Regards, Peter B.

Offline RocklockI

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Quite Deaf .  ;D

From what I understand being killed by an exploding mortar shell was very rare untill the wooden plug type fuse was replaced.



 
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline little seacoast

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You have to admire the stones of those Maori, chasing down a live shell and pulling the fuse to get some extra powder. 
America has no native criminal class except Congress.   Sam Clemens

Offline broadarrow

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Hi All,

This is the mortar type described in the posts above,





Regards, Peter B.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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SHORT barrel !
Does it have much range?
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline Cannoneer

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C'mon Broadarrow, that is one interesting Coehorn; how about just a wee bit more information? ;)
Is that the true scale of the mortars you're talking about in reply no.1?
What is the bore size of the mortar?
Is that how the shell was actually seated over the chamber?
What is the purpose of the cylinder in front of the powder pan?
Is that the type of bed that the real mortars were mounted on?
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Ex 49'er

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Broadarrow,  That there is a nice looking mortar you got there. What kind of range do you get and how large is your powder charge?
When you're walking on eggs; don't hop!!

Offline broadarrow

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Hi,

Yes it is a full size replica and it's bore size is 5 1/2 inches just as the originals were. The ball actually sat half in and half out of the barrel exactly as you see in photo 2 it looks odd I know and the cylinder in front of the touch hole was apparently for a sighting instrument that was used for aiming but it is not known what it looked like as none of the originals have survived. Apparently the whole piece was an exact replica of the originals that was built from the original drawings,

Regards, Peter B.

Offline Cannoneer

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Thanks, Peter, that really is an interesting looking mortar. If the chance arises, I sure would  like to see more photos of it. In your first post it's stated that these mortars were firing 500-600 yards with accuracy, so the way the shell was placed in the mortar must have worked (I've never seen that before).
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.