Author Topic: Double Barrel Advice  (Read 2809 times)

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Offline Cubby08

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Double Barrel Advice
« on: October 24, 2009, 05:15:02 AM »
Im sure this has been asked alot around the forums, but I am looking for a double barrel shotgun for pheasant hunting.  I am on a tight budget and would like to spend under $600.  I am not sure if I would like a side by side or an over/under.  I am thinking maybe a Stoeger or a Mossberg.  Does anyone have any experience with these guns, and which type would be better for a long day of walking tall grass.  I am pretty sure i would like an over/under 12 gauge but I am all ears.                       
                                                             Thanks everybody--- Cubby

Offline Wyo. Coyote Hunter

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2009, 08:25:29 AM »
 :D Cubby, Having been though the double gun stage, both o/u and s/s good doubles and cheap do not go hand in hand.... :( >:( I guess I am too much of a rifleman to accept the different point of impacts of the two barrel guns.  I have used them and done well, but even with Brownings and Beretta's the different point of impact of each barrel could be noticed.  The S x S seemed to be the worst. Most of the guys that I know that have them do not pattern them too much but just shoot. They seem to do very well, but it bothered me... Also one  S XS double in 12 ga. that I had would shoot trap loads to the same point fairly well, but when I put a heavy load in and fired, it would shoot low and left of the point of aim. Even the fine British guns are usually regulated for one load.  :'( :-\ :-X :-[

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2009, 11:35:59 AM »
If your budget is limited to $600 my advice would be to get a pump or semiauto and forget the idea of a cheap double. Sure they are out there and I've had them and they do work but most just don't have the lively feel needed for best wingshooting performance.

Some folks use the Russian guns but I'd not take one for free to be honest as they feel like swinging a 2x4. The Stoeger guns are a little less so but still far from what I prefer for wingshooting and feel they are best for home defense use. The Huglu guns imported by CZ and DeHaan are about the lowest priced I can recommend and they don't meet your budget. The Mossbery guns look and feel nice but after talking a friend into buying one because of that it doubled on him right away and required replacement.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline Cubby08

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2009, 06:37:39 PM »
I already have a Maverick 88 that i use for everything from pheasant to shooting trap on the FFA Trapshooting team back in highschool.  It has been my only shotgun for the past 7 years, and plan on keeping that pump for the rest of my hunting career.  But for some reason I have had my eye on double barrels to use while hunting pheasants.  But if I cant get a halfway decent gun for $600, I guess I will just have to wait until next year or the year after and get a better quality gun.  But what is the absolute lowest priced double barrel shotgun you guys would purchase.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2009, 10:13:17 PM »
Cubby-

There are a number of O/U's out there in the $600.00 range.  Mossberg, CZ, Charles Daily, the Remington Russian imports, are a few that come to mind.  They tend to basic, good, serviceable guns.  You don't have to spend over $1000 to get a decent double.  That said, don't expect the same level of fit and finish as you will find on the higher priced guns.  How a shotgun fits you, and feels in your hands is important.  You should go to a gun shop with a decent selection, and try handeling a few of these guns.  Another option is to look at a clean, used, higher grade gun, like a Winchester 101, SKB, Franchi, Citori.  Guns like these are a couple hundred over your $600 limit, but offer a step up in ift and finish, and may or may not balance better in your hands.  Just because a gun is inexpensive does not mean it can't handle well - there is no law saying that a double under $1000 has to have its stock drilled for a lead pipe to destroy the balance..lol

Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2009, 02:15:14 AM »
Best would be to find a nice used Browning Citori, Berreta, Winchester 101, older Charles Daly or SKB in roughly that order in my opinion. They can often be had for $800 to $1000. All are O/U guns.

But if ya want new then I'd go for a Huglu made gun imported either by DeHaan (first choice) or by CZ (close second choice). Both are made by same folks but the DeHaan guns are finished a bit nicer than the ones imported by CZ. Both are well made guns with good lines and should serve you well. They both import SxS and O/U guns both so take your pick. I've owned both and several versions of them. All have been well made guns that do have the handling qualities it takes to actually use them successfully for wingshooting.

My advice is to go with one of them or one of the used guns mentioned. As far as price goes you'll be lucky to get either for less than  $750 and likely will have to spend more like $850-$900.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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Offline Cubby08

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2009, 04:01:11 AM »
Ok, now that i got a couple manufacturers in mind.  What would you guys prefer an Over/Under or a Side by Side?  And would you rather have it in 12 or 20 gauge?  The main reason I think I want a double barrel is because I am getting confident in my shooting ability and would like to only have 2 shots instead of 5 or 6 in my Maverick depending on the length of the shell for more of a challenge.  I believe my Grandfather has a SxS I could use this season but when I was handling it a few weeks ago it felt rather on the heavy side and the foregrip is missing a large chip of wood. 
                                          And thanks alot guys, a co-worker recomended this site just 3 days ago and I have found alot of information I had previously had to sift through the internet looking for.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2009, 04:34:45 AM »
Almost all the guns mentioned are O/U's.  SxS's are a lot harder to find, and tend to cost more.  CZ imports a decent looking SxS, I think around $900 or so.  Ugachera also has a nice box lock SxS, Also about $1000.  I have one and they balance nice.  Most guys use O/U, and seem to hit better with them, I think due to the single sighting plane.  I like a lighter, better handling 20 over dogs for upland, but for an all around gun, 12 is what most guys would choose.

Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2009, 11:33:03 AM »
The choice is a personal one but I think most chose an O/U over a SxS but the SxS is a classic bird hunting gun. I don't shoot them nearly as well as I do O/Us personally.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2009, 02:43:45 PM »
  If we are voteing, make mine a S&S PLEASE!

  DM

Offline mrbigtexan

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2009, 03:59:25 PM »
i really like my mossberg o/u. i would go with a 12 gauge.

Offline mattmillerrx

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2009, 04:23:04 PM »
I will add one that I am looking at in both the SXS and the O/U.  The brand is Yildiz, they are made in Turkey and the only people selling them is Academy.  I am not exactly sure on the prices but the O/U sells for under 400 and the SxS is 489.  I had read up on these guns a little while back and read positive reviews.  I talked with a couple of people that have them and love them.  I started looking at them again and may get one.   They are very light and the only negatives I read were the kick from these guns is hard.  I can live with that as i am planning to get the 20ga myself and if there is a problem I will add a recoil pad.

I would like to look at the Stoeger uplander as well, as I have read a little on it lately and it sounds like an ok gun for the money.

The Yildiz is a decent buy for the money as well. Most I have seen have nice wood.  They all come with the same engraving but it is not bad to look at.  But at the same time is a gun I don't mind beating up a bit. 

My newest thought was I might get one in a .410 as a new play toy for me but also to have something my nephews could fire and my daughter when she is big enough.  I have never really understood the fascination with the .410 until today when I saw a couple of 5 and 6 year old boys bust clays with one.  But my thoughts change daily so who knows...

Offline squirrellluck

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2009, 04:54:17 PM »
Can't say about o/u. Honestly never fired 1. I have hunted most of my life with a s/s for small game and birds. Own 5 but nothing made after 1970 and only 1 made after 1955. To deside between s/s or o/u you just have to handle both and see what fits you and your hunting style. My eyes just ain't stacked right to shoot an o/u! ;D But give em both a try. Doubles are great just not for everybody. Some just don't care for them. Good luck and if you consider used there are some great old doubles out there.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2009, 05:03:50 PM »
I will add one that I am looking at in both the SXS and the O/U.  The brand is Yildiz, they are made in Turkey and the only people selling them is Academy.  I am not exactly sure on the prices but the O/U sells for under 400 and the SxS is 489.  I had read up on these guns a little while back and read positive reviews.  I talked with a couple of people that have them and love them.  I started looking at them again and may get one.   They are very light and the only negatives I read were the kick from these guns is hard.  I can live with that as i am planning to get the 20ga myself and if there is a problem I will add a recoil pad.

I would like to look at the Stoeger uplander as well, as I have read a little on it lately and it sounds like an ok gun for the money.

The Yildiz is a decent buy for the money as well. Most I have seen have nice wood.  They all come with the same engraving but it is not bad to look at.  But at the same time is a gun I don't mind beating up a bit. 

My newest thought was I might get one in a .410 as a new play toy for me but also to have something my nephews could fire and my daughter when she is big enough.  I have never really understood the fascination with the .410 until today when I saw a couple of 5 and 6 year old boys bust clays with one.  But my thoughts change daily so who knows...

  If you shoot much, Yildiz have a reputation of breaking fireing pins, if you don't, then that may not be an issue.

  .410's are one of the hardest guages to hit anything with, i hope you don't strap ANY new shooter with a .410!  Get a 20 ga., ammo is cheaper, and with lighter loads, even a kid can handle it.  (yes i know .410 isn't a guage)

  DM

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2009, 05:20:41 PM »
Yes the .410 bore is an experts gun for wingshooting not a beginners gun. Some times it makes me want to pull out what hair I have left but the light recoil of those half ounce loads are much easier on my shoulder which is in bad need of surgery.

To my mind the ideal beginner's gun is a 28 ga but you best have deep pockets or reload or both as the ammo for it costs as much or more than premium .410 target loads. You can get 20 ga. for less than half what .410 and 28 goes for. Still the recoil of the 28 is noticeably less and it seems to hit just as hard on the targets.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline huntswithdogs

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2009, 09:43:12 AM »
Look around for a older Stevens SxS. Onliest thing was, they have a wide forearm. Maybe it's just my hands but it takes me a while to get used to it. Good ,tough shotguns over all. I had 1 Stoeger Uplander and won't have another. I've not messed with any of the Huglu guns(CZ and DeHaan) but know some who've had the CZs. Mixed reveiws have kept me away from them. I've shot the Bakhail/Remington offerings. Like Bill said, they handle like a 2x4, are as ugly as a mud fence but keep on shooting.

Some folks find it disconcerting to look down the rib of a SxS and let it get into thier heads about how the shots can be going to the same place. The same folks never think about the shots from a stack barreled gun. You need to handle as many as you can, to see which feels best to you. Close your eyes and shoulder the gun. Open your eyes and see what you're seeing. You need to be looking right down the rib. Not seeing the end or the back of the barrel. Do this a couple of times with each gun. If you can get this right, the gun will shoot where ya look as if it's part of ya.


HWD

Offline Cubby08

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2009, 03:33:29 PM »
thanks for all the help guys!    I took the plunge and decided to go with the Stoeger Condor.  It went on sale for 60 dollars off and decided to jump on it after shouldering and talking to the salesmen about some other models available.  Is there any quick tips for the Stoeger Condor before opening Pheasant this weekend?       I will let you all know how it shoots and hopefully can get a few roosters this weekend.
          Thanks Again!!

Offline Pot-Bellied Stallion

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2009, 07:17:55 AM »
I'll second what huntswithdogs said.  I've shot Stevens 311's all my life, and still hunt with one that was a $60.00 pawn shop find in 1957.  I've never had a problem with it and have put thousands of shells through it from skeet loads to high brass duck loads.  I'll be pullin' it out of the safe this weekend for snowshoe hare and grouse.
Thanks for the stump

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Offline The Hermit

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2009, 05:05:54 PM »
I have a Stevens 311 also. Its 12 gauge SXS. 28" barrels. Forearm is tapered and fits well. I sight with both eyes open and swing like the end of the barrel is a giant eraser. Works for me, but I haven't seen one on the market in quite a while. I'm older than dirt and am partial to doubles.


   The Hermit

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2009, 06:28:37 AM »
  I hated my 311, the trigger pulls were poor at best, there was enough wood on the stock/forearm to stock a second gun ect...  lol

  Like many of the cheaper guns, they are made from decent steel, they just are poorly fit and finished enough, that i'd rather pay more and get something better.

  DM

Offline JPShelton

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2009, 03:47:59 AM »
The whole "swings like a 2 X 4" thing must be a highly personal one with respect to the Baikal guns that Remington imported until recently.  People say the same things about Mossberg M-500 pump guns, too.  And for most people, maybe they aren't the sweetest swinging guns on the rack.  That doesn't mean that everyone is inclined to agree or even has too.

As an example, I've owned a New Haven Model 600 (house brand Mossberg 500) 20 gauge pump gun for 30 years this December.  My dad bought it for me as a Christmas gift when I was 14.   Now, with the 28" C-Leckt Choke barrel that it originally came with, it DID swing like a 2 X 4............

But, about 20 years ago, I traded an SKS for a friend's 24" Accu-Choke Mossberg M-500 barrel, put that on my gun, and its been sweetness and light ever since.  The end result is a gun with perfect between the hands balance that stikes a nice compromise between dynamic handling, lead sustainting mass, and lightweight portability.  My old Ugartechea 20 bore side by side was too light.  Plenty of guns swing well but pack more lardy mass than I want to hump up hills chasing chukar.  My 24" barreled New Haven, however, is just right.

I don't get embarrassed by shooting a "house brand" Mossberg at the gun club, either.  Mine was stocked from the factory with a highly figured mahagony wood set.  My dad was a sucker for wood and bought that gun because he thought it was pretty and figured (rightly so) that I'd be inclined to want to keep it that way because it looked so good.

Thirty years of use had kind of taken their toll, particularly with the finish of the alloy receiver.  So this year, I spent more than my dad paid for the gun in sprucing the old girl up a bit.  I had a local gunsmith refinish the alloy receiver and install a Limb Saver pad to the butt.  I freshened the wood myself.  I got a few extended choke tubes in skeet 1, skeet 2, modified, and improved modified.  I figure it ought to be good to go for the remainder of my shooting life.

At the gun club, most people don't know its a cheap, department-store Mossberg, and don't belive me when I respond to their "Hey, what kind of gun is that?" questions.  Not that I really care.  I like it.  I shoot it very well.  That's all that matters to me.

Yeah, it weighs a little more than my Uggie did.  Not enough more to matter in all-day field carry, but enough to make a big difference when playing the sporting clays game or swining on a flushing chukar.  The pump action doesn't get in my way.  The gun was pretty slick shucking when new and thrity years of pretty frequent use have only made it that much slicker.  I don't think about shucking it.  I call for singles, report doubles, or true pairs, and shoot 'em.  I manage to grind my share into dusty black powdery poofs.  Shooting a 391 Parallel or an MX-80 wouldn't change that much.

My Ugartechea, with its "British Game Gun" styling, might have made me look like the Lord of the Mannor but it didn't let me kill more upland birds or grind more clay than I can with my cheap department store pump gun.

So, what does my little saga have to do with the original question?

Just this: I shoot what I like.  I happen to like my "cheap" New Haven by Mossberg pump gun.  It doesn't matter to me whether anyone else is impressed with it or not, or whether anyone else would chose to shoot something substantively similar themselves or not.

If a Baikal trips your trigger, or a Stoeger Condor, or a DeHann, or a Yildiz, or an H&R Pardner, or a Perazzi, or whatever, then that's the gun to own, shoot, and enjoy.  I wouldn't be embarrased to shoot a Baikal double.  A friend of mine has one, and to be honest, I liked his gun better than the Uggie I had.

Which goes to show that one man's 2 X 4 could very well be another man's "magic wand."

-JP

 

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2009, 04:06:46 PM »
I too have gone down this road in the past.
While I now own 2 O/Us, a 101 and the newer Supreme, both 12 ga, I still have a fancy for a nice S/S.
At the present time I own 2 Fox model Bs, (1 in 12 ga and 1 in 16 ga) and a Fox model BSE in 20 ga.
All cost under $450.00 used.
Don't over look the spanish made doubles either.
There are some very nice S/S guns from over there and they usually run under $500.00 used.
I have 2 of them.
A RENO and a GUROSABLE both in 12 ga.
They are well made with fit & finish being very well done.
Most have color cased frames and are engraved.
They tend to be slimmer and lighter than other brands of doubles.
They are both a joy to carry & to shot, although they do tend to kick harder than the heavier guns do due to the weight difference.
I also like the double triggers!
I did own a Stevens 311.
It was a great shooting 16 ga but the finish left a lot to be desired.
I was able to trade it for the 16 ga Fox I now own.
The O/U guns mostly have interchangeable chokes while the S/Ss are almost always fixed (F&M) choked.

You say you bought a Stoeger Condor.
These aren't bad guns for the money.
One thing I have noticed with these guns is they all seem to be pretty tight so the barrels won't just drop open when you work the latch.
A friend of mine has two of them and even after two years of heavy use they are still hard to open.

I am sure you will still have plenty of fun with the one you bought.
In the mean time you can still keep your eyes open for one of the others if you so desire.
Good shooting to you!


LONGTOM
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Offline Freezer

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Re: Double Barrel Advice
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2009, 04:32:48 AM »
   I have a Stevens 311 in 16 guage.  It's a joy to hunt pheasent and dove with.  It's lite carries well and I can hit with it.  The triggers were a bit heavy so I got a new set form Wolff Springs.  It's not fancy, I reinished the stock and metal.  To me a gun is a tool.  Though I enjoy loking at good wood and fine guns I don't want one.  My guns all go in the field all have a scratch on them. I have other shotguns all with a nitch to fill.  Beretta 390 is my bassic duck gun and a Mossberg 5500 mkII 24" barrel is my pass shooting or long walk gun.  The Mossy is a lot liter and has a shorter barrel.  When the teal are in it's a hard gun to beat.  I picked up a Rem 1100 lt 20 guage for $150 that was beat.  The finish was gone and there was some minor pitting on the reciever. After refinishing that one it made a nice lite upland game gun and works well on the range.  It willn't turn any heads but...  The only shot gun I own that I won't shoot is a Win 37a 12 guage with a 28" full choke.  That single shot kicks like a mule and though I handle it well no thanks!  Alas I'll never sell it because it was my first shotgun.