KY man shot with ramrod

[SHOOTALL]

now that make the best sense yet !

While working on a job at Fort Pickett i saw a friend test fire a cermonal (sp) gun . it was pulled behind a jeep it was maybe a 2 or 3 inch bore . It was used at speical events at Fort Lee . It had a problem with misfireing and he was working on it . Well the brick layers had a wall about 7 foot high up . it was a good 150 ft long with no corners or braces on it yet . My friend did not un hook the gun or raise the bbl. he was maybe 250-300  yards away and pointed at the wall when he fired it . the wall fell over , did i mention the brick layers were still on the scaffold ? They came down got in their trucks and were gone in a second . My friend had heck to pay .

[artillerybuff]

Actually, the acceptable safety zone in front of field artillery pieces firing blanks ranges from 60 to 100 feet depending on the organization and size of blanks being used.  Anybody outside of that zone is totally safe unless the cannon is improperly crewed/operated.

I'm sorry, but I still feel a rammer implement is NOT going to launch down range like this unless it was in the bore of the barrel when it was fired, and if it is made of solid 1.5" diameter Oak as most are, they can fly hundreds of yards completely intact.  I have heard first hand accounts of them ending up in a tree on the other side of the reenacting battle field.

Anthony Variz

[artillerybuff]

now that make the best sense yet !

While working on a job at Fort Pickett i saw a friend test fire a cermonal (sp) gun . it was pulled behind a jeep it was maybe a 2 or 3 inch bore . It was used at speical events at Fort Lee . It had a problem with misfireing and he was working on it . Well the brick layers had a wall about 7 foot high up . it was a good 150 ft long with no corners or braces on it yet . My friend did not un hook the gun or raise the bbl. he was maybe 250-300  yards away and pointed at the wall when he fired it . the wall fell over , did i mention the brick layers were still on the scaffold ? They came down got in their trucks and were gone in a second . My friend had heck to pay .

Very hard to believe unless they were firing some kind of quadruple load or something and even then 300 yards???  Sounds like a very tall tale...

We collectively fire thousands of cannon blanks each year with reenactors on the battle field in-between the US & CS gun lines outside of the established safety zones of 60' to 100'.  We also live fire shoot 50 to 600 yards including small knock down metal targets that will blow over in a wind gust, and unless hit directly with a canister round do not fall over when shot at, even as close as 50 yards.

Anthony Variz

[seacoastartillery]

   

I wonder if they store their powder in that same shed the guy lit the linstock in? 

     You are very observant, subdjoe.  They did!  When I spotted this , I nudged Mike in the ribs and said, "Did you see where he lit that slow match?  This could be interesting!"

     Subdjoe,  I sure hope you are not complaining about this possibly EXPLOSIVE, practice, after all, after 30 years each in quality control, both Mike and I need a little excitement in our lives!  As an inspector, most of the time, you are bored to tears. 

     The various bosses we had thought they were really doing us favors by announcing,  "Here you go, guys, they want 3 dimensions checked on each of these 900 widgets!"  We thanked him and then placed the reject barrel at least 10 feet away so we could "shoot some hoops" to stay awake on jobs like that.  So much for Statistical Process Control or even the standard sampling plan.  Nervous managers always demanded 100% inspection. 

     There were a few notable exceptions, of course, like the time that I was working at the old aircraft factory in North Denver and went nose-to-nose with a very, very upset British Navy Officer who wanted his little pneumatic pistons for a Navy torpedo.  Shouting at me one minute and almost crying the next, he was between a rock and a hard place, having made promises to the Admiral that he couldn't keep.  Despite his attempts to intimidate me, I felt sorry for him, so I said, after I put the final D-stamp on the paperwork and was walking away, "If you can figure out a way we can ADD METAL to those precision pistons, be sure to let us know."

     I was working at the old rocket factory just south of Denver when there was quite a rukus at the south end of first floor factory. Six or seven Air Force Officers were pointing at a huge, 4,000 pound slab of aluminum we called a skin.  When I got closer I could see that they were very upset and asking the floor inspector on duty,  "Why, why??"  He was explaining, in an even tone, why this huge piece was scrap for sure, after the very large Gantry Mill with a 12" cutter chewed up several 20 foot swaths.  The coolant failed and chunks of melted aluminum were everywhere!  The operator was helped down from his perch above the twisted metal mess by medical techs.  I found a nice 2 pound piece of melted aluminum about 70 feet away, shaped like the "Flames of Hell".

Good catch, subdjoe!

Tracy and Mike

[Sunrise]

Everyone can establish whatever safety zones they believe appropriate, and I certainly don't mean to criticize Anthony or his friends. However, accidents do happen, and it is a simple fact that if you always ensure that the muzzle of any firearm (even a cannon) is pointed in a safe direction, such mishaps need not be more than embarassing.

I suspect that if this case leads to a lawsuit - which it probably will - the jury will be negatively impressed by the fact that the cannon was aimed in a direction that was frequented by innocent picnickers. Protestations about blank charges being safe beyond 100 feet will likely fall on deaf ears.

[artillerybuff]

Everyone can establish whatever safety zones they believe appropriate, and I certainly don't mean to criticize Anthony or his friends. However, accidents do happen, and it is a simple fact that if you always ensure that the muzzle of any firearm (even a cannon) is pointed in a safe direction, such mishaps need not be more than embarassing.

I suspect that if this case leads to a lawsuit - which it probably will - the jury will be negatively impressed by the fact that the cannon was aimed in a direction that was frequented by innocent picnickers. Protestations about blank charges being safe beyond 100 feet will likely fall on deaf ears.

I totally agree except the injuries in this case were not caused by an "accident", they were IMHO caused by NEGLIGENCE.  This is why a jury will rule in favor of the plaintiff.  When you violate the approved artillery drill and established safety standards you have no leg to stand on.  If you do not have a tight drill and established safety standards to begin with you are even further behind and have no business firing a cannon.  Not saying this is the case here, just stating a fact in general.

In our Battery we do not allow anyone on our guns until they pass a written safety test and pass a hands-on drill inspection.  Even then it takes constant enforcement and attention to detail.  Every “accident” I have ever read about was cause directly by negligence, i.e. speed loading, failure to properly worm & sponge, failure to properly clear a misfire, using oversized loads, using duplex loads, using wadding, using an inferior barrel (essentially a large pipe bomb), etc…  in other words somebody screwed up and that is no accident!

People that cause "accidents" like these because of negligence put every cannon owner at risk, raise our insurance rates, and make us look bad.  This is why I always take such a strong stand/hard line on the matter of drill & safety.  I have been known to hurt people’s feelings at times, but I would rather have them walk away angry than end up with somebody getting hurt or killed.  I have also pissed off Artillery Commanders during reenactments because I would not rush load our guns so they could get another volley off before the infantry advances.  Safety always comes first no matter what, it can never be compromised.

Anthony Variz

[subdjoe]

   

I wonder if they store their powder in that same shed the guy lit the linstock in? 

     You are very observant, subdjoe.  They did!  When I spotted this , I nudged Mike in the ribs and said, "Did you see where he lit that slow match?  This could be interesting!"

     Subdjoe,  I sure hope you are not complaining about this possibly EXPLOSIVE, practice, after all, after 30 years each in quality control, both Mike and I need a little excitement in our lives!  As an inspector, most of the time, you are bored to tears.   

Oh!  I wasn't complaining.  I thought it a prudent measure.  The drying effects of the lighter and slow match will help keep moisture to a minimum in that storage shed.  As we all know, powder that has gotten wet an then dried is very unstable.   

[Sunrise]

Here's another video from Fort William Henry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9ZNB7IWWhE&feature=related.

I don't know what is in the "grenade", but the fact that it is chucked towards spectators speaks for itself. 

[KABAR2]

The more I see of this place the more glad that I am not the insurance underwriter for this place!

[Sunrise]

I have never been there, and have no personal knowledge of who they are or what they do. It is certainly possible that the youtube videos are not truly representative of their staff or procedures. 

However, based solely upon those videos it is difficult not to reach the conclusion that they are a bunch of ignorant hillbillies without the slightest knowledge of the most elementary safety precautions.

[subdjoe]

I have never been there, and have no personal knowledge of who they are or what they do. It is certainly possible that the youtube videos are not truly representative of their staff or procedures. 

However, based solely upon those videos it is difficult not to reach the conclusion that they are a bunch of ignorant hillbillies without the slightest knowledge of the most elementary safety precautions.

Um....major spelling error there.  That should be spelled 'city dwellers' not hillbillies.

[navygunner]

HMMMMMMMMMMM!!! Hillbillies eh I much prefer the sophisticated term "mountain williams" lol
NG