Springfield M1A or Remington R25

[obiwankabaldi]

I want a .308 auto for hunting and really like the two mentioned above for that as well as for tactical. I do have a DPMS in .308. Tell me why I should buy one or the other. Both seem to get great reviews, and the Remeington is actually very much like my DPMS, same mags, style and shootability. I do like the DPMS but have it outfitted strictly as a home defense weapon. It looks very "black Rifle" and I do not think I should hunt with it. Both the Springfield and the Remington are going for about the same money. My shooting distances will be brush close to out to 200 yards. Thanks for the help..

[mannyrock]

   You are really comparing an apple to an orange. They are based on totally different systems.  I would suggest you just go to a range. shoot one of each, and pick the one you like.  In general, the M-1A is somewhat more reliable, with far less maintenance, than the AR variants, but is heavier to carry.  You are either a 1950s "wood and steel battle rifle" guy, or a 1960s "plastic and aluminum battle rifle guy."  At the ranges you are talking about, assuming use of the same ammo, there is not going to be any real difference in the effectiveness or accuracy between the two rifles.    Just see which one handles best for you.

Regards,

Mannyrcok

[mannyrock]

  Additonal thoughts:  Hmm, I just did further research on the Remington R25. I don't know what reviews you have been reading, but the ones I see on line report various problems:  jamming, case deformation, and hard to open bolts, plus really crummy customer support from Remington.   That plus a magazine that is proprietary, and only holds 4 rounds???

  NO WAY. I wouldn't buy it.  Go with the M1A.  You can get it with a synthetic stock if you like.

Regards,

Mannyrock

[saltydog]

First of all the rifles are semi-autos not autos. Second there is another poster reporting on something (the R25) they don't have a clue about as they don't own one or have never shot one and have a very limited knowledge base about. The R25 magazines are available from DPMS and C products in 5, 10 and 20 round versions. I have a R25 and other DPMS products and I have not had problems with any of them. I called Remington and got customer support directly from the R 25 R&D team when I was looking at purchasing another upper. For heavens the R25 is a tarted up DPMS and DPMS rifles work. The fluted 20" barrel (actual length as there is no muzzle flash hider) is one of the most accurate rifles I own and has me considering selling my hb DPMS LR 308. I don't know which model DPMS you have - if it is a LR308 wth 24" bull barrel - it is definately not for hunting as mine is very heavy with scope attached. A carbine length 16" barrel would be fine. You could always camo your DPMS and save money but it is not a R25. As far as the M1A for hunting - no reason not to take one as many owners do. Magazines are less money than the R25. M1A rifle is not going to be a light, easy to scope or handy to carry but there are no real drawbacks. I have considered taking my M1A HUNTING but declined as it did not "seem the right choice"  for me. I bought the R25 for hunting and it was my first choice to take for a private whitetail hunt last year and after carrying it in the field for a week I would buy one and never look back.

[teddy12b]

I went through this debate a long time ago and ended up buying a DPMS 308B.  The biggest reason was the reviews about accuracy.  Most of the reviews I read about the M1A, the owners were happy to get 1 1/2" at 100 yards, and the DPMS guys were usually getting less than 1" if not closer to 1/2".  The DPMS 308B I had shot under 1/2" at 100 and all I did was upgrade the trigger.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy another if I had the $$.

They are both fine guns in the big scheme of things, but I'd buy the R-25.  The R-25 is built by DPMS.

[SHOOTALL]

I choose the M1-A and like it . At 300 yards you can hit clay birds if you have a good rest ( the BBL in mine is a NM ) . If you like a plastic stock they now come with one . As far as carrying one if you want small try a socom . But weight is a good thing when shooting a 308 sometimes . As far as accy. Either rifle can be accy many M1-A's compete and win some in 1000 yard matches .
The M1-A is easier to clear a jam . It also lets dirt pass thru. the action . It is made to clear dirt etc out while shooting . I have hunted with mine and it works well .
The R-25 looks ok ( don't have one ) so it should be a nice rifle also.
In 50 years we will know if the R-25 is in fact as good as the M1-A .

[Skunk]

I went through this debate a long time ago and ended up buying a DPMS 308B. The biggest reason was the reviews about accuracy.

I tend to agree Teddy. In addition to reading a few bad reports, a friend recently purchased a new, lower end Springfield M1a, and he had a horrible experience with it in terms of accuracy. He is a very experienced shooter, reloader, and gunsmith, and he knows how to get the best out of all of his guns, but his M1a was hopeless - 3-4 inch groups at 100, 8-12 inch groups at 300. He tried nearly every conceivable bullet and load combination, bedding the receiver, on and on... He worked nearly full time on that rifle for over three months trying to get it to shoot, to no avail. He ended up selling it. His experience sure cured my desire for a Springfield M1a. On the other hand, I've heard that the $4000 model with the Match barrel, double lug receiver, and McMillan stock shoots really well right out of the box.

Note: I'm not trying to criticize or defame Springfield rifles in any way, nor am I trying to imply that all Springfield rifles shoot like my friend's. Just reporting one man's experience with one Springfield rifle. My friend's experience obviously does not speak for all Springfield rifles.

[SHOOTALL]

Did he return the rifle to SA ? Anyone can make a bad one its how they respond to the problem that counts . If he didn't then he did not try everything . If he did sorry he had to go thru that .

[Skunk]

Did he return the rifle to SA ? Anyone can make a bad one its how they respond to the problem that counts . If he didn't then he did not try everything . If he did sorry he had to go thru that.

No, he didn't send it back Shootall, but, he's a gun dealer and had taken the rifle off his own shelf. Had he been just an average customer, I'm pretty sure he would have let Springfield deal with the problems. However, he had a customer that wanted it regardless, so my friend threw in a few extras to make up for the poor performance and was just happy to sell it for I'm sure at least his dealer cost. Plus, I get the feeling that he even sort of enjoyed the challenge of trying to get it to shoot. So the story isn't all that sad in his case, but for a regular guy it might have been really traumatic.

[Arier Blut]

You basically have the r25 already. They are made by dpms. Some minor differences but the only major difference is camo. Try a product like this http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?type=product&id=0028170226906a&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=camo%20rifle%20skin&cm_ite=netcon  or possibly trade the dpms for the r25.

Personally I am not a fan of the M1A I have had 2, one from 15 years back and one bought new last year. Both did not meet my accuracy expectations. I personally favor FN FAL and HK 91 and hunt with the 91 as it likes to hover around an inch. The FN stays around 2", more than acceptable, but I keep it iron sighted so the 91 wins out.

[mannyrock]

Dear Guys,

  I apologize that I didn't know that DPMS makes hi-cap mags for the R25.  But, as to the reports of jamming, case deformation, hard to close bolts and crummy customer support, these reports are on the internet, posted by owners, for anyone to see.  Just research it for yourself. 

  I didn't just make this stuff up.  Personally, I don't care enough about the  R25s to take the time to make stuff up about them.  :-) 

Regards,

Mannyrock

[Arier Blut]

Mannyrock, there has not been a significant change from DPMS to Rem. The DPMS has been notorious with all the problems posted on their 308 for years. Also many problems on the standard AR from DPMS due to tight  chamber. It is a non winning argument. A lot of folks don't shoot their rifles enough to run into problems. I had one DPMS 308 and one .223 both had issues. I plan on a Rock River 308 since they picked up Bushmasters pattern that accepts FN FAL mags. For me a rifle that jams once has done it to many times. Some can live with it and that is fine. Some never encounter that in the DPMS brand and that is wonderful as well. To each his own, just buy what makes you happy.

[teddy12b]

My DPMS sweet 16 never had a problem in just over 1000 rounds and my 308B never had an issue in the few hundred rounds I had through it.  I think I must have been a lucky guy, because I've read about guys having problems, but most of what I've read is from a long time ago.  I think DPMS had some issues years ago, but I think even though they're squared away their early reputation will continue to haunt them.

[crawford769]

i havent had any problems with my r25 yet, and the 4 round magazine is just a 10 round dpms mag with nylon blocks in it.  i took the blocks out of mine and you can put them back in if you want.