OK, this is a strange question but has anybody ever tried . . .

[mannyrock]

Dear Guys,

   Don't get sick right away, . . .but I was wondering if anybody ever tried to build a nice compact single shot rifle by starting with an old lever action winchester (top loader/ejection), removing the magazine tube,  making a small custom fore-end, and then reworking the loop of the lever to a more "sharps" or "martini "styled lever.   If you started with an old beat up .30-30 or .35 remington, it probably wouldn't cost that much, and it may turn out to be a fun project.  (If you started with an older Winchester model 94 with an octagonal barrel, that might be the best.)

   I'm guessing you could remove the side loading gate, and gate latch spring, and then just cover up the resulting oval hole by fitting a nice piece of polished blued metal over the top of the hole (like a patch), and drilling and taping two small screw holes in the receiver to screw the patch to the receiver.  (You might even use a piece of heavy brass as the patch, cut into a floral or other decorative design.)

   I guess that the real challenge would be to do it so nicely that it doesn't look like a "Frankenstein gun", but I think it could be done.   

   Any extra ideas or technical comments are welcome.   :-)

Thanks, Mannyrock

 

[spruce]

Got to admit, I haven't heard that one before!  I'd say you're definitely thinking outside the box - not a bad thing.

One thing that strikes me as a possible problem would be the design of the extractor.  It's on the top and as the bolt is levered to the rear the ejector kicks the empty up and back.  If it had a short underlever you would probably lower the rifle to work the action, in which case the empty would be thrown up and back right into your face. 

If it was modified to just extract and not eject then it would withdraw the case and you would probably have to reach in and try to pull the empty out from underneath the extractor.  Just seems like it might be kind of awkward and hard to get it out.

Interesting to think about anyway.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Manny, I have never tried the project you have in mind,never even thought of it,,,, but did have a Marlin rebarreled for .25-35. It was one of the more expensive rebarrel jobs I have  had done and the barrel was a cheap one. The reason was the fitting of the mag. to the barrel, plus some other work.     While this sounds like a fun project, I would guess it is EXPENSIVE..... By now I have had dozens of rifles rebarreled and modified. At present there are 2 getting worked over at my gunsmith, and he just delivered my .300 H & H. To get a quality gunsmith to do this job would probably cost you a bundle. To get someone with less talent you would probably have a mess.    Unless you are one of those talented folks who can do this your self. Then you are in luck.. Hate to burst you dream, but get your check book out if you try this..... But such dreams are fun!!!!!!!!!! My present one is a 338-378 with a wood stock!!!!!!!!!!

[Frank46]

Mannyrock, some years back there was an article in the cast bullet association magazine describing exactly what you are talking about. Since I suffer from CRS will try and work from memory. Don't know what caliber it was, but the mag tube was discarded, hole used as a forearm hanger attachment point and since this was a try it and see what happens project using cast bullets from what little I remember the author was very happy with the accuracy. Do not remember what caliber or if another barrel was used but if the lips on the front of the receiver (marlin) were removed you can use a fatter barrel and attach the forearm to the bbl much like a winchester or martini 22rf single shot. Of course the origional forearm cannot be used as it was way too small in size. I seem to recall that this project was done due to the scarecity and cost of a good single shot action. And the author basically used what he could get. If you are wanting a barrel on the cheap you could use a 308 machine gun bbl, which is about 24" long, cut the chamber off which is approx 2" which would leave you a 22" bbl about 1.250 or so in diameter. Single shot 30-30?. On a marlin all you would have to do to just extract is remove the ejector and the receiver is already D&T for either iron sights or scope. Your idea sounds like a good way to use an old lever action and have a lot of fun. While I mentioned just the marlins I see no reason why you could not use a winchester lever action, deactivate the ejector, and mount a scope on the barrel. you would probably have to use high rings as you'd need some room to load and unload the rifle. Hope that this has been of some help. Interesting idea. Frank

[mannyrock]

Hey Guys,

   Thanks for all of the great comments and ideas!  Now you have opened my mind up into some different avenues.   A couple of initial thoughts:

   1.  I guess that the whole point for me would be to do this for as little money as possible.  So, the concept of rebarelling the action would be out of bounds.  As Wyo coyote pointed out, a rebarrel job would quickly push this type of project into huge money.   

   2. I love Marlin levers, but unfortunately they all load from the side of the receiver, instead of from the top. There is nothing wrong with this, except that it would create a strange single- shot rifle, and I think this project may already be strange enough.   :-)  So, this leaves the Winchesters.

   3.  With the Winchesters, I guess you have to simply accept that you are going to be in one of the standard calibers (.30-30, or .32 Winchester, or maybe .38-55).   Any others I haven't thought of?  Of course, the Winchester 73s, and other black powder models came in a wide array of calibers, but as  collector, I can tell you that you would be spending at least $2,000 to find one that is in good enough shape to shoot, and that kills it money wise.  (Also, you would be destroying a valuable antique, for a fun project.)

   4.  Hey wait a minute!  I'm now thinking, what about a Winchester Model 95, in .30-06.   They load and eject from the top, and you could slip a chamber insert into the receiver to make it a .308 Winchester, and then figure out how to put a blocker in the bottom of the magazine so you couldn't load more than one shell?   Just a thought.  Maybe too heavy and complicated.

    5.  The fore-end?  Why get fancy here?  I'm thinking about the way that the forearm of a Handi-Rifle attaches to the barrel.   Even if the project rifle had a standard round barrel, why couldn't I just have a bar of metal (or even a Weaver type rail? ), installed on the underside of the barrel, just in front of the receiver, and then drill and tap two large machine screw holes into it, and then use these holes for installing a forend, using large round headed machine screws?    Of course, everything sounds easy until you try to do it.

    6.   Another fore-end idea, as already suggested, is to use a short magazine tube (with a steel rod inside) or a steel rod threaded on one end to match the threads in the mag tube hole, as a hanger?  With a short steel hanger rod sticking out of the reciiver about 8 inches, you could slip a heavy forend on it, and then just secure the front of the forend to the rifle with one vertical screw up into the barrel.  (Might even use a fancy nosecap).

    Oh well, the only thing going for me is that there is a gunsmith just up the road, who would do the small drilling and tapping jobs for next to nothing, and my neighbor is a retired cabinet maker, with every conceivable wood shaping machine in his shop.

   OK, does anyone have any guesses as to whether the metal used in the Winchester lever loop is malleable?  In other words, if I cut off part of the end of the loop, and then wanted to reshape the long remaining piece into a small curl, could I do that by lightly heating the end and lightly tapping it with a small hammer on an anvil?

   Thanks for all thoughts.  (Clearly, this could not be a target rifle.  Just a fun 125 yard big game rifle.)

Mannyrock

[Frank46]

Manny, if you could find a 95 winchester cheap and in 30-06 just change out the bbl to 375 caliber 1x14 twist and chamber in 375 '06. Or check out green mountain bbls for a winchester style maybe #3 in 375 caliber and have the smith just drill the hole in the underside of the bbl like the 1885 high wall, get a winchester style high wall forend and leave extra wood on it and when fitted to your bbl you could slim it down to your preference. Thing the 1885 win used a dovetail slot on the underside of the bbl and had a piece that fit the slot and this is where the forend screw went. Frank

[John Traveler]

That conversion of a Winchester lever action to single-shot sounds like a fun, if somewhat impractical idea.

As previous posters mentioned, rebarreling is probably prohibitively expensive unless you do the machine work yourself.

Restocking is no problem either if you are handy with woodworking tools and have lots of patience.

The lever loop is very maleable.  Just heat redhot and hammer forge away.

[mannyrock]

Frank and John,

  Thanks for all of the new info.  Exactly the kind of stuff I need to know.

  Yes, I am convinced that rebarrelling in any fashion is out.  I am sure that if I did that, I would end up with a total of $1,000 in the project, which is out of the question.
 
  One big problem I see with using a standard Winchester 94 action is that it would almost certainly come with a short 20 inch barrel, which is just no good in my opinion for a single shot.  So, I would have to search really hard for an old special order (or beat up commemorative) Winchester 94 with a 22 or 24 inch barrel.  Of course, finding the stuff you need is half the fun.

  As for the forend wood, I would probably look at gunshows for an old heavy ruined walnut stock from a commercial or military type bolt action rifle, and then simply cut the front of the stock off, about 2 inches  in front of the lug mortise.     This would give me a solid walnut "forearm" to work with, that already has a barrel channel.  I know that this sounds rinky-dink, but if you start with a good piece of walnut, and work on shaping it, stripping it and finishing it every night for about 3 months, you would be amazed at how beautiful the result can be.  (Hey, I got nothing better to do.)

  As for heating the cut-off end of the lever loop, do you think I could just use a regular propane torch to heat it up, and then just tap tap tap away?

   Thanks again,

Mannyrock

   

[Frank46]

Mannyrock, as a part time instigator or partner in crime don't thing getting a new barrel and having it installed would run the amount you spoke of. There are plenty of take off barrels from other rifles that could be used for your project. You could do a trip through gunbroker and other sites to see what is available. Forends, yes you could use the wood off a military rifle and work it until your hearts content and that would not cost big bucks. Or try and find an old target rifle stock with the big forend and work on that. Might have to do some glass bedding but would be workable. Don't give up your project as there are a lot of ways to get what you want. Sounds very interesting and definitely a one of a kind project. Frank.

[mannyrock]

     Hmm, thinking ahead, I foresee another problem, that I can't really seem to come up with a solution for.

     As for the lever, I was going to cut off a straight section of the the bottom part of the lever, starting from the outside of the round trigger guard, and going rearward about 1 inch or so.  After removing this section, I would be left with with an open hook, comprised of the straight top part of the lever loop, going rearward into (and including ) the 180 degree curve at the rear of the loop. 

     As for the open hook, I was going to heat it, and gently tap the end of the hook inward, into a round curve, to create a closed round circle at the end lever, to assist in opening and closing the lever (somewhat like a Martini lever.)

   Problem: the resulting final lever would be somewhat thin, being comprised of only the original top thin section of the lever,  plus the round curve at the end.   Would this lever be strong enough to open and close the action without gradually "bending"?   It would probably end up being bent downward from use, since the downward pull of the lever to open the action after firing a round would probably be the hardest pull.  Or maybe not?

   Any thoughts, experience, ideas regarding this problem and any fixes???

Thanks,

 Mannyrock

[Frank46]

Manny, on both the winchester 95 and marlin 336 there is a small tab that projects down from the receiver. When the lever is fully up un the fire position it presses this tab up and allows the hammer to fire the cartridge. If the lever is not up fully and not pressing the tab up into the receiver then the hammer will not fire the cartridge. Its a safety interlock that will not allow the rifle to fire out of battery. Defeating a safety of any kind is not the thing to do. What you could do is cut the part that lies against the stock after the safety tab, so it will do the job its supposed to do and have the lower part of the lever contoured with finger rests sort of like the schutzen levers on  a winchester high wall. This way the safety will work as designed and you would have a unique lever. For a couple pictures, check out a post that was done about a couple weeks ago on a gentleman who had posted a evaluation of price on a win high wall for insurance purposes. The rifle in question  shows the schutzen lever as I have described. By the way just for the heck of it did a quick search on gunbroker.com for used barrels. There was a used kreiger bbl with about 2500 rds through it up for auction. There is plenty of life left if you stick to cast bullets. Have the chamber end cut off and rethreaded for either lever action 94 or 336 and its in stainless. Or have douglas bbls make up what you want but short chambered and have it installed and finish chambered.
Sometimes I'm envious of those who can do the work themselves. Frank

[TLARbb]

Not real sure, but I think Ithaca had a single shot lever gun in .22 LR.  I never saw one face to face though.
EJ

[bcp]

The Ithaca has a non-steel frame and is a Martini-style action.  The breech block is hinged at the rear and drops in the front to reload.

Bruce