Author Topic: Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet  (Read 4541 times)

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Offline doublegunner

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Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet
« on: August 06, 2010, 08:34:09 AM »
I have a Martini Cadet Rifle that was made into a Nice Custom 22 LR Match rifle w/ peep sights in the 50's or 60's.  Could it be coverted into a 22 Hornet or 218 Bee with out much work?   I would also like to change the sights to a Lyman Super Target.  What do you think?  I could add pic later.

Bob

Offline Frank46

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Re: Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2010, 07:26:45 PM »
Cannot speak for others, but pics would be help us as to exactly what you have and help you out. Frank

Offline Mikey

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Re: Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2010, 03:38:21 AM »
I think they rebarrel the Martini Cadets, or can.  HTH.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2010, 04:51:49 AM »
The simple answer is yes.  You can rechamber the 22 to 22 Hornet.
The complex answer is maybe not.
One of the guys in the club had one that an uncle had reamed to 22 hornet back in the late 70's.
The rimfire firing pin hit the primer on the edge and every 10th round would go off.
He ended up having the the barrel taken off, cut back to remove the hornet and re thread the barrel and re chamber it to a 22LR.

An easy 22 mag rechamber would be the easiest way to get more oomph out of the rifle.

Offline Frank46

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Re: Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2010, 08:43:51 PM »
Bob, back in  the day the origional 22lr bbl was used in 22 hornet conversions. That is one of the reasons you have two bullet diameters available for the hornet. .223 and .224. Yes you can use the lyman sts scope if you wish. You'll have to get the bbl drilled and tapped for the scope blocks. Or using a set of high rings and I think a redfield base for the 7400 rem semi auto rifle you can use a regular conventional scope. I had a gunsmith friend who is no longer with us make up a hornet on the cadet action and  to give a little more room for the fingers slightly cut down the right sidewall. if you can latch on to a BSA model 12 or 12/15 in 22lr think it would look better as they used a heavier bbl diameter than the cadet. Frank

Offline Hooker

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Re: Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2010, 03:51:06 PM »
Don't take my word for it here's the expert.

Martini Cadet Rifles by Ian Barger, 597 Rockvale Road, Armidale NSW 2350
The large actioned Martini-Henry rifles were used by the various colonial armed forces and police forces in Australia from 1871, originally in .450 calibre and in the closing years of the century in .303 calibre. These .303 Martinis were generally known as Martini-Metfords or Martini-Enfields, depending on their rifling pattern, and used the .303 cordite cartridge designed for the famous Lee-Enfield rifle used by the United Kingdom and its former colonies from about 1895 until around 1960. At the time of Federation of the separate Australian Colonies to form the Commonwealth of Australia in 1901, there was thus already a fairly long history of the colonies using versions of the Martini action as their standard military weapon.

These military Martinis were very heavy full-sized rifles, too large and heavy for the 14-18 year-old cadets in the various militias of the time. The first attempt to provide a special cadet training rifle appears to have been made by the Victorian Government in 1887 when they purchased 500 Francotte Patent Martinis in .297/300 calibre. Subsequent batches of these training rifles were also acquired by the West Australian and Commonwealth Governments. The Francotte Patent allows removal of the lock mechanism by the simple removal of a single split pin, as seen on the later .310 Cadets. The Francotte Martinis were made by A. Francotte and W.W. Greener, who introduced the stamping of a kangaroo on the top of the receiver, as found in the later .310 Cadet Martinis made by Greener and the Birmingham Small Arms Company (B.S.A.). Apart from the Francotte Patent and the kangaroo, the action resembled the Mark IV Martini-Henry in profile.

Not to be outdone, the New South Wales Government in 1891 introduced a miniature version of the Martini-Henry Mk IV rifle. Still in .450 calibre, these rifles were made by the Braendlin Armory Company of Birmingham, and were stamped "BRAENDLIN CADET CARBINE 500/450" on the barrel and came complete with a cleaning rod slung beneath the forend. The right-hand side of the action carried the typical Martini-Henry cocking indicator. A similar rifle, the .310 Westley Richards Cadet Martini, was issued in NSW shortly after Federation. This was also a miniaturized version of the Martini-Henry, and like the Braendlin, did not use the Francotte lock removal system.

In 1910 the Commonwealth Government introduced a system of universal cadet training, and issued the States with what is now known as the .310 Martini Cadet Rifle. These employed the Francotte Patent, and were made in the UK by both Greener and B.S.A. They were marked "COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA" on the right face of the receiver, and had the now-familiar kangaroo profile on the top. They were issued to all states and thus carry the various State markings on the buttstock and on the upper right corner of the right face of the receiver. The B.S.A. Martinis are generally considered to be better-made than the Greeners, and the later and more common B.S.A. version carried a superior rear sight, adjustable for both elevation and windage. The cartridge was an existing commercial round, the .310 Greener, a small-game and target centrefire cartridge about the same size as a Winchester .32/20 and fitted with a 120 grain heeled lead projectile.

Frank de Haas in his classic "Single Shot Rifles and Actions" says that B.S.A. made 80,000 of the .310 Cadet rifles, although I have a Queensland-marked B.S.A. rifle dated May 1912 that has a serial number of almost 83,000. The .310 Cadet rifles were withdrawn in 1921 and cadets issued with the standard military .303 Lee-Enfields, although the stored Martini Cadets were re-issued to the militia in 1942 when Australia was in danger of being invaded by Japan in World War II. A little-known sidelight of this development was the manufacture in Australia at that time of a copper-jacketted round for the .310 Cadet, as use of the original lead projectile by the Army Reserve forces would have contravened The Hague Convention!

After World War II, the Martini Cadets were sold to the civilian population - I can remember seeing them in disposals stores in the 1960s selling for the equivalent of $6.00. Large numbers of Cadets were sold in the United States and also New Zealand. In the 1950s and 60s, .310 Cadet ammunition was available commercially in Australia, but in USA the nearest available round was the Winchester .32/20. Some Martini Cadets would chamber the .32/20 without modification, but those with tight chambers were generally re-chambered.

This was not always an entirely satisfactory procedure, as the groove diameter of a .310 barrel, despite the designation, was .320, while the projectile in the .32/20 round was about .312 in diameter and thus tended to rattle down the oversize barrel. Perhaps the majority of Martini Cadets, both in Australia and elsewhere, have ended up being re-barrelled to suit commercially available ammunition. The most popular of these conversions have been to rimfire calibres, both .22LR and .22WRM, and to small-game centrefire calibres, especially .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .222 Rem and .357 Magnum.

Some beautiful sporting stocks of highly figured walnut or maple have been fitted to these converted rifles, and I have seen photographs of some extraordinary customised Cadets fitted with such stocks and with the actions intricately engraved. Despite its antiquity, the Martini Cadet action is a strong one, and many shooters are intrigued, as I am, by its simplicity, safety, ease of use, ingenuity of design, and precision of manufacture. Many are still in use in Australia in the form of a smallbore target rifle, the Sportco Clubman, with a heavy .22LR barrel and aperture sights.
 


Pat
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Offline Huffmanite

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Re: Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2010, 03:02:38 PM »
I do have an early Australian Francotte Martini thats been converted to 22 Hornet.  Original cartridge was a kind of bottleneck 22 rimfire.  Fun rifle to shoot.  I'm hardly a Martini expert but am curious about them.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.....but wasn't the 310 cadet cartridge a centerfire, not a rimfire.

If so, then when converted from 310 cadet to 22 LR, then some kind of work done on firing pin or breach block so pin would strike edge of the rimfire ammo.  Now you need to undo this work and return it to centerfire.  Is this possible....easy to do?

Also, my gunsmith did use a Remington 7400 scope mount and D&T the A&B barrel in the martini action that used Leopold/Redfield type rings.  This mounting system worked....but even with my small hands....had a problem unloading/loading rifle.....not much clearance between scope and top of action.  I solved the clearance problem by finding a Weaver type mount (been awhile, assume I used a Remington 7400 weaver mount) and altered it to fit further back on barrel and have the scope back further.  Also went to a higher scope ring.     

Offline Hank08

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Re: Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2010, 08:23:16 AM »
Doublegunner,  Any good gunsmith can rechamber, recut the extractor, change the action to centerfire and install target blocks for your target scope.
H08

Offline cwop

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Re: Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2010, 05:47:01 PM »
i would go to assra website there are some real single shot experts there and can help you.

good luck

bob

Offline .22-5-40

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Re: Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2011, 06:02:37 PM »
Hello, doublegunner.  Just a thought...That nice martini might just be worth more than you think to a target-rifle collector.  What about keeping it all original and only switching out the barrel..you really don't want a rimfire brl. for jacketed bullets anyway..they wern't designed for the higher pressure & you will see barrel wear sooner than if you installed a quality Chrome-Moly chambered for the Hornet ctg.  That way, scope blks. could be mounted & rifle changed back if ever you wanted.  Just my opinion.  Best of luck! 
                                                        P.S.  I forgot..you would need another block for C.F. if you went this route.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Martint 22 LR to 22 Hornet
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2011, 06:55:47 PM »
  The Martini cadets (Australian) were originally chambered for a .310 centerfire.  Many have been converted to .22 Hornet and .218 Bee.  I had one in .218 Bee, which has been passed down through my son to my grandson.
    BSA used the same basic action, mde into rimfire form to make some excellent target .22 long rifles.  If you have a rimfire now, chances it always was and always should stay rimfire.  One would have to make a barrel with offset bore otherwise...A La ...  H&R Versa-Pack.


   This might help you...   http://www.martinigallery.com/
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