I may be black and blue tomorrow...

[Quadzillabill]

But I had fun today.  :-)  I spent the lunch hour getting acquainted with my SRH .454 Casull.   :eek:

I brought a box of 45 Colts to get a feel for the revolver (same great solid feel as my .357 mag GP161) and for general sight-in purposes.  I also had a box of  Hornady 240 grain XTP's rated on the box at 2000 fps at the muzzle and 1541 fps at 100 yards.

The 45 loads surprised me with their tame nature.  Felt like shooting a .38 to be honest.   The sights were WAY off and it took me half a box to get in the neighborhood - but I was putting them into 6 inch holes a little low and right from 50 yards by the time I wrapped it up.

Loaded in a single .454 and BANG!   :eek:   What a completely different animal.  Wow, this thing will make you work on your form immediately, or suffer the consequences.  I ended up shooting 8 shots - and that was enough for the day.  Any amazing amount of energy in this cartridge.  Assuming I don't get recoil shy, I'd feel safe saying that this thing will kill just about whatever you hit near the right spot with a quality bullet.

I'm going to decide on optics get a scope added to see if I can bring down the groups, and if so this will be a very nice gun to have around for whitetail hunting at close range.  Also a great home defense gun (although I'm not sure what ammo I'd use for that purpose.

I can say that this gun is not going to be for everyone.  If I hadn't fired a whole lot of handguns, I'm not sure I would have wanted to load a second round.   The recoil was surprising - but then again so was my Encore unported 30-06 when I first tried it - but I believe it also is manageable.  

The SRH operated flawlessly while firing.  I found that while the .45 colt brass ejected quite easily, the ejector needed hammering help with the .454 brass.  Anyone else experience this?

[DzrtRat]

Heh, heh.  Sounds like you had a good time!

Yesterday, I went out with a buddy to sight in his 22-250 and decided to bring along my Vaquero .45 Colt.  The shells I brought were some handloads with 250 gr hard casts and 26 grains of H110 (ONLY reccommended for Ruger SA's and TC single shots and NOT for colts or colt replicas).

My buddy said, "I hope I don't hurt your feelings when I out shoot you with your own handgun!".  Since I've put about 500 rounds through this gun in the last month, I just smiled.

We were shooting at a block of ice (50 yards), and his first shot was about a foot high.  His second was closer, but still high.  He then handed the gun to me, and my first shot took a chunk of ice out of the side of the block, and the second shattered the top 2/3 of it.  

Ok, so then I handed it back to him, and his shot hit the dirt about halfway to the target!  He turned around looking kind of quizically at me, handed the gun back and said, "Here, I'm scared of that d@mned thing!".

Heh, heh.  The funniest part is that he is about 5'8" and weighs about 210 lbs; I'm 5'7" and wiegh almost 130 lbs!  I guess it really is a matter of learning to handle the gun and recoil right.

Happy shooting!
~Rat

[BCB]

Quadzillabill,

There is an informative article in the October 2003 No. 225 issue of Handloader magazine concerning the sticky extraction you are getting with the 454 Factory ammo.  Worth a read and see.

My cousin has a SRH in 454 Casull and it shoots well...Only problem, he can't keep the 'scope in place for much more than 75-100 rounds.  Point of impact slowly changes.  Close observation shows marks of movement on the 'scope tube.  It isn't an abrupt movement, but maintaining a constant zero for hundreds of rounds appears to be as much of a challenge as programing oneself to withstand the recoil!!!  I wonder how much bigger and powerful we can make handguns and still convince someone to purchase them???  Good-luck with your SRH 454 Casull...BCB

[Quadzillabill]

Quadzillabill,

There is an informative article in the October 2003 No. 225 issue of Handloader magazine concerning the sticky extraction you are getting with the 454 Factory ammo.  Worth a read and see.

...BCB

Boy you aren't kidding.  Makes me wish I'd read it a week ago.   :evil:

Thanks for that great resource.

[Graybeard]

If you will read my reviews of both the Taurus RB .454 Casull and the FA83 you'll note I commented way back then that you can't use the Hornady ammo in a Taurus RB and not in many Ruger SRHs either. They are fine in the FA83. The brass is too soft. Both Hornady and Taurus knows this and both say the fix is for the other to change. Don't use Hornady brass or ammo in RBs or many Ruger SRHs.

Only eight rounds and you think you'll be bruised? Back during the testing of those two revolvers mentioned above I was firing from 150-200 rounds per day some days thru the two combined. In the RB it was no problem, in the FA83 some of them actually brought blood. But nothing was black or blue.

GB

[Quadzillabill]

If you will read my reviews of both the Taurus RB .454 Casull and the FA83 you'll note I commented way back then that you can't use the Hornady ammo in a Taurus RB and not in many Ruger SRHs either. They are fine in the FA83. The brass is too soft. Both Hornady and Taurus knows this and both say the fix is for the other to change. Don't use Hornady brass or ammo in RBs or many Ruger SRHs.

Only eight rounds and you think you'll be bruised? Back during the testing of those two revolvers mentioned above I was firing from 150-200 rounds per day some days thru the two combined. In the RB it was no problem, in the FA83 some of them actually brought blood. But nothing was black or blue.

GB

Well, since I'm still pretty new here I hadn't seen those reviews.  Great information - thanks.  

Any idea on why this issues exists?  I've seen enough finger-pointing in my line of work to know that it won't be readily fixed by either party.  I shoot a lot of Hornady ammo in all my guns and while it would be easy to change, it seems odd to me that they would make a 'soft' (literally or figuratively)product of any kind.  They've got a great reputation in my book.  I'll do a search, but if you could link me to those reviews I'd really appreciate it.

150+ rounds of this stuff?  :eek: Needless to say that's an incredible amount of action in my book.  I rarely sit down and shoot more than 50 shots with any one weapon at a time.  I would have been worried about a concussion.     Can you share with me any factory loads that you found to be accurate and extractable?  Maybe they won't apply to the SRH, but its someplace to start.

BTW, here's the link to the 'Handloader' article:

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=1121&magid=80

I think I'll call Ruger today and see what they say about the whole thing...

[Quadzillabill]

I called Ruger, and they suggested that it had something to do with certain early lots of Hornady's ammo.  They very nicely gave me the number, but made it clear that if this didn't resolve it, they would want to look at the gun.

I talked to a tech at Hornady, and he said 'it must have been a ruger' before I could even finish the story.  Starting to worry, he gave the me the scoop.

Early lots of Hornady's ammo was made with a softer (less brittle) brass.  Complaints had been made about other manufacturer's (winchester) brass cracking after being reloaded only a couple of times, so they chose to use a softer brass to avoid this.  They had no problems with the FA revolvers (it sounded like this was the only thing they may have tested in) regarding this brass.  

They since have had complaints with the Ruger and somewhere along the line switched to a harder brass to avoid the problem.  They believe that the issue was really poorly polished cylinders in the Ruger, but the brass change has made the problem go away.

Lot numbers that are 01xxxx or 02xxxx are with the newer brass.  Lot numbers lower than that (like my 000276) are the softer brass.  Now to find some later lot numbers and do some test firing.

That's the rest of the story.....

[willis5]

Getting back to the recoil. When I first got my 454 RB I went through 20 rnds and was sore in the hand. Then I got used to it and at teh most I have put 100 through it in a sitting (factory ammo! $$$$$$) Now I shoot a reload that a buddy cooked up

[Quadzillabill]

Getting back to the recoil. When I first got my 454 RB I went through 20 rnds and was sore in the hand. Then I got used to it and at teh most I have put 100 through it in a sitting (factory ammo! $$$$$$) Now I shoot a reload that a buddy cooked up

I was caught a bit off guard by it yesterday, but today I want to go back for more.  A bit tender, but that 'get me back in the game' tender.  A box of 20 new Platinum Point 260gr Winchesters and $21 lighter in the wallet, and I'm ready to go again.  BTW, this is a brand new bullet according to my shop, and they had a gelatin fired unit that looked just like the old Black Talon.

This might be just the thing to convince me to try reloading.  Its not like shooting 9mm, that's for sure....    

[Graybeard]

For anyone who hasn't read my reviews on the FA83 and RB.454 you can find them on the Product Test Page at: http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/product_test/index.shtml  There is also a link to this page in the first announcement on the  Product Reviews Forum.

In those you'll find the test results in both guns of several factory ammos as well as many handloads. I used factory ammo from about everyone who was making it at the time.

As someone else mentioned above, Hornady engineers made a decision to go a bit softer on the brass in the .454 Casull ammo for some reason. Why is subject to debate and likely only a couple folks at Hornady know the real story. I don't so won't try to offer an explaination. They only told me it was to give longer reloading life for the cases. Fine if they are usable but they aren't in either Taurus RBs or many Ruger SRHs.

Why? Well the management at both Taurus and Ruger decided (I suppose) that the guns needed a wee bit of help with the massive back thrust generated by ammo operating at 65,000 psi. So they gave it a bit of help. Both do a rough finish on the chambers of the revolvers. You can look into each chamber hole in the cylinders and see this. You can also see it on the cases of the Hornady ammo usually. This gives the gun a bit more "grab" on the case and reduces back thrust to the frame. BUT on many if not most of the RBs and SRHs it also makes the cases stick when you try to extract them. The lots of their ammo I have don't even work for reloads at pressures below 55,000 psi.

Neither Ruger nor Taurus seem willing to give the chambers a high polish like FA does theirs. Nor does Hornady seem willing to make the brass harder. Why? Dunno.

You can polish the chambers yourself or have a gunsmith do it for you if you just gotta use Hornady ammo or cases in your guns. Me I just gave up on it and use the cases I got from Starline or the Winchester cases left over from the WW factory ammo I was supplied. I have a bunch of new Hornady ammo laying around I can't use in the RB and didn't use up when I had the FA83 here. Good stuff. I really like it. Hot and accurate in the FA83. Accurate in my RB but too much trouble to get out after firing. I called it to Hornady's attention several times but they don't seem willing to do anything about it.

GB

[Quadzillabill]

GB, mentioned it in my post - according to the tech I spoke with at Hornady, they have moved to a harder brass (change in annealing process) in lots that are 01xxxx and 02xxxx due to this issue.

I'd say your comments were heard - but just slowly.   :roll:

Thanks for all the help - I'll go read those reviews now.