New Handi Rifle Combo Ordered

[togojeff]

Found a 357/20 gauge slug barrel combo up here in the great white north!
Should have it by friday at the latest.
I'm thinkin' a 357 maxi reamer job is coming up as well if I can get hold of a reamer.

[Squib]

have you tried light bullet loads with H-110?  I keep hearing about the maximum, but the mag is capable of much more than most people think....

[togojeff]

have you tried light bullet loads with H-110?  I keep hearing about the maximum, but the mag is capable of much more than most people think....

No but I have tried W-296 loaded up pretty good and have gotten 1800 fps out of a Rossi Puma
using 140 Hornady XTP's. The thing is with the maxi I can shoot both rounds if I want.
Problem is being way up north I don't know if I'll be able to get a reamer without buying one, so I
might just have to stick with the .357, which as you say ain't a bad thing.

[Default]

Boys ,

 I had a great accuracy load of IMR 4227 ( dont recall the exact number but close to max if not max) and from my 22" ejector 357 mag i was pushing the 140gr xtp around 1950 +/- ..

 And thought to myself that the xtp has always done so well by me and others i know for hunting that i would give its day in court, Yeeeaaahh that could have turned out better !

 Big doe at 50 maybe 60 yards , broadside and ever so slightly quartering towards me at the shot , clipped hair on the ground no blood .. 5 hours later i had to just resign that it didnt do what was needed , and i had a wounded animal out their from my hands  ( i dont like that at all) ..

 Point being is that the 140 xtp is flat and fast for caliber loaded max or close to it, out of the handi .. But i wouldnt recommend it on medium size game unless you plan on a neck/head shot ... I'm not one that attempts head shots on game animals on a regular basis ... So i went to the 180s from rem and hornady .. I shouldnt have this problem again.

 Just my experience with that bullet loaded fast in the mag .. I would hate for you guys to find yourself were i was last year, I would think the heavier 180s would give you a better chance of a pass through...  Or if bone contact is made , a better chance of holding together .. I hear the 158s do well but i have no experience with them in the mag on game as of yet.

  
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[togojeff]

If I was going to use the 357 for deer, I would for sure go with the heavier bullet.
For coyotes though, I think the 140's would do just fine.

[Squib]

my question isn't power but how well the bullets hold up, I'm a fan of 125's and out of a 4" ported barrel those xtp bullets don't burst on water bottles but they do more than just open up (10-25yds)... out of a handi that load would go even faster so I think it would have the speed to do the job but not with an xtp (I've used berry's plated bullets: .357 125grs double struck hps in starline brass, federal spm primers) and they don't blow up like that.  The recommendation is that they not be pushed beyond 1200 but I know that with a 21.6 powder drop of H-110 they don't mess anything up IN MY GUN.  I'm not saying your handi won't lead but a used and abused Taurus 608 that's been factory overhauled since I've had it (who knows about the last guy) can do it so I don't know why a solid breech action can't

I'm not a ballistics expert but I know what I can get away with it because I load meticulously and check the brass just as thoroughly (I work at a brass factory and inspect the stuff all the time so I know what it's supposed to look like after it's tumbled-the same way it does coming off the assembly lines)

that load being said to be safe and all for me... I think you should go ahead and shoot some lighter loads with a different powder before you try hotroding the berry's down your bore with H-110 (making sure the bullets hold up after that much more friction down a rifle bore as opposed to a pistols short length-they might lose their plating)

and let me know how it works because I'm gonna end up buying barrels for my handi soon enough and if the .357 is good to go (the bullets don't "pop" at the rifle velocities) with the stout handgun loads then I might get a .357 barrel, or ream it if you end up suggesting that

I'm already thinking 22-250 and some others but I've already got my .357 loads set so let me know by christmas time please (when I have a bit of money to do some purchasing)

happy thanksgiving!!!

[omcforever]

Lil Gun behind a 125 JSP..........Very stout round and accurate and easy on the ole wheel gun,,,I shoot em thru a 586 L-frame and a 4 inch 608 and 6 inch 669.

[Squib]

I thought you gave up on taurus 

not me, I got my lemon fixed (lemon due to a crappy center pin or abuse by the previous owner I don't know)

does that handgun data work for a handi barrel without weakening the bullets enough to fragment upon impact though (because of the jacket getting that much more strain going down a longer barrel)

I don't know much about the crossover because i don't have a .357 rifle

[togojeff]

Tried out the new Handi today using Rem UMC 125 gr leadless ammo.
Fired a box of Privi FMJ's through it first to start the break-in procedure.
All I did before firing was clean the factory lube off of thelatch and latch shelf,
and cleaned the chamber out as well. No barrel cleaning or polishing.
I am getting 3 inch groups at 100 yds which isn't bad considering the lack
of prep. Minute of coyote out to that range.

Next steps will be to try shooting with the forend off and use some handloads.

[Squib]

gonna do any terminal performance testing?  I'm still undecided on whether the max loads will hold up and penetrate before fragmenting or just go everywhere like a "varmint grenade"

inquiring minds need to know this information 

superhard cast lead bullets should work fine but then you'll get leading so I'm hoping it's not the only way to not frag the bullets out of a longbarrel

[Spanky]

I don't think hardcast would lead the barrel as bad as you think. I shoot hardcast in my 45-70's and don't have any leading at all. Mind you, I keep my reloads at trapdoor levels. If the speeds are kept reasonable (no hot rod loads) with the 357 I think the cast will work great. I think the only time they would lead up the barrel is if they are pushed too fast. I just got my 357 barrel in the mail today and plan on loading up some hardcast and keeping the speeds conservative. I could keep track of the loads and report on accuracy, leading, etc. if you guys would like.



Spanky

[togojeff]

gonna do any terminal performance testing? 

Only on the coyotes

Once I ream the barrel to 357 max if I am going to use it for whitetail
I will be using Hornady 180 SP's which will be good for that purpose.

[Squib]

my problem is a preference for the lighter velocity monger bullets (I'm thinking more along the lines of bullets that go about 2,000fps from a .357 magnum handgun, that's gonna be rough on the bullets going faster with much more time and torque inside a long barrel)


if you're strictly pushing the heavy bullets down the bore then you might not have that problem like I have with bullets coming apart (even from handguns- not rifle barrels).  yeah the info is always good spanky- the more you put up the smarter we get.  same to you jeff, coyote pics after too if you can stomach it (I have a feeling pita won't get on here to see so who's gonna complain)

I've been meaning to test my loads on opossums (bullets breaking up on them is fine so they're dead either way)

[cwlongshot]

 I have shot a couple deer with my Colt White-tailer in 357Mag. I find the 125's a bit soft, the 125 SP's better and the 140's loaded with a max load of H110 my TOP CHOICE!! But that's in a 8'' barrel! I tried that same load in mt marlin carbine and found its quite destructive. It works, but the bullet comes almost completely apart inside the deer. I haven't used that marlin for some years, but if I did, I would grab one of two loads, the Hornady XTP 158 FP or 150GD HP bullet, my loadings. I have harvested a couple deer with the XTP and it performs as a bug game rifle bullet should, Good expansion and thru and through penetration with nickle to quarter sized exits. The GD HP is softer, but still gets thru and thru with broadside ribs shots. But larger quarter plus sized exits. i haven't ever recovered one of these bullets.

 Now as for the maxi, I have tried that same XTP FP but at 2200+ FPS it too is kinda fragile. OK, on broadside lung shots, where little to no bone contact. I prefer the Hornady 180 SSP. Even this one isn't 100% if your @ close range and hitting bigger bones. I always get something to exit, but usually only pieces. Speers 180FP designed for the 35Rem is another dandy bullet for a rifle fires maxi. Its a tough bullet and a top choice for bone shooters at hair singing ranges.

If I had to choose one bullet for each caliber (In a rifle/carbine) it would definitely be the 158XTP FP in the 357 Magnum and the 180 Hornady SSP for my beloved 357 maximum.

CW

[Lazermule]

Togojeff,

Would the great white north be Togo, MN?

LM

[quickdtoo]

A bit further north, Togo, Saskatchewan. 

Tim

[Squib]

cwlongshot- you're the man


that was the specificity I was looking for....  at least we know now that it won't "detonate" till it's inside, I was skeptical about even that.