power and a choice

[Bucker]

I am looking to purchase a slug gun and the boss says quit whining and do it......Gotta llove that . Anyhow, I was all hyped to get a 12 gauge and then started reviewing the ammunition specs on various sites. To my suprise the 20 gauge is showing as good and some cases a little better on specs.  So it's back to the drawing board for me.  I added these specs below not as the particular brand I am going to use but as a comparison to what I am seeing on web sites and they were readily accessible.
So I am sure this debate has raged before, but tell me why I need a 12 vs the 20.  The biggest diff I see is at 125 yards the energy is 300 foot pounds diff (for the 12). I was taught that at least 900 fps was required for a clean kill on deer in my ML shooting world, so that doesn't seem to be a factor? 

My requirement for a gun so far:

I willl be using a scope
I will have a cantilever
This will be a rifled barrel
This will be  a dedicated slug gun in pump action (do not like singles or bolts or semis)
Yes, I know 20 gauge is somewhat limited in ammo choices, but it looks as though they are producing some more ammo at different comapnies recently
Yes, I know there is around 50 grains more bullet in the 12
I am not recoil shy

So I need some users/experienced shooters input on a buying decision. I think I covered the bases on research, but am open to more looks at different thoguhts. 
Thanks for your help.

Load No Caliber Shell Length
IN / MM Grains/ Grams Bullet Style Brand Use
P209XT1 20 3 / 76 5/8 / 273 Barnes® Expander® Tipped Vital-Shok® Barnes® Expander® and Tipped Expander 
 

Ballistics Comparisons:
  Velocity in Feet per Second (To nearest 10 FPS)
Velocity
Load No Caliber Muzzle 25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y 125 Y
P209XT1 20 1900 1811 1726 1643 1564 1487
 

  Energy in Foot Pounds (To nearest 5 Foot Pounds)
Energy
Load No Caliber Muzzle 25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y 125 Y
P209XT1 20 2192 1991 1808 1639 1484 1343
 

  Wind Drift in Inches (at 10 MPH)
Wind Drift
Load No Caliber 25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y 125 Y
P209XT1 20 0.2 0.8 1.7 3.0 4.7
 

  Average Range
Average Range
Load No Caliber 25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y 125 Y
P209XT1 20 0.7 1.2 1.0  -1.9
 





P151 XT1 12 3 / 76 3/4 / 328 Barnes® Expander® Tipped Vital-Shok® Barnes® Expander® and Tipped Expander 
 

Ballistics Comparisons:
  Velocity in Feet per Second (To nearest 10 FPS)
Velocity
Load No Caliber Muzzle 25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y 125 Y
P151 XT1 12 1900 1810 1724 1641 1561 1484
 

  Energy in Foot Pounds (To nearest 5 Foot Pounds)
Energy
Load No Caliber Muzzle 25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y 125 Y
P151 XT1 12 2630 2387 2165 1961 1774 1604
 

  Wind Drift in Inches (at 10 MPH)
Wind Drift
Load No Caliber 25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y 125 Y
P151 XT1 12 0.2 0.8 1.7 3.0 4.7
 

  Average Range
Average Range
Load No Caliber 25 Y 50 Y 75 Y 100 Y 125 Y
P151 XT1 12 0.7
 

[JimFromTN]

First and foremost, what is your price range?  What ranges are you going to be shooting?  If your max distance is going to be 100 to 120 yds, then go with the rem 870 12 ga with a hastings barrel.  Since it is a dedicated slug gun, get the barrel pinned and get a lighter sear spring to lighten the trigger.  Some guys will push 150yds successfully with a 12 ga using the high velocity slugs.  You definately need a fixed or pinned barrel for that.  Reminigton makes the Rem 870 SPS SuperSlug with a fixed barrel and Ithica makes the Deerslayer III, but its around $1100, maybe more.  If you want to try to take something 150 to 200 yds, go with the 20ga.  The only problem is that if you refuse to get a bolt action, you probably need to spend about $1100 or more on a deerslayer III in 20 ga.  I don't think a standard pump shotgun with a drop in barrel will be accurate enough at those ranges so you definately need a permanantly fixed barrel like the deerslayer III.  If you did not have the issue with the bolt action shotguns, then you could get the savage 220 for around $500 more or less.  I have heard guys saying tha they are getting sub moa groups with the savage 220.

The thing about shooting long range with slugs is that you need to spend allot of money on expensive slugs and shoot allot to know how your gun will perform at those distances.  Not that you are but you can't be one of those guys who buys a rifle and a box of shells and uses half the box to sight it in and the other half to hunt with and assume you have a 200yd shooter.

[jwtietz]

I felt the same way and had believed all the energy #'s. I started with the 12ga slug guns and killed quite a lot of deer. I now hunt with the 20ga almost all the time. I have  5 12ga slug guns and 4 20 ga. I almost always grab the 20s to take out. I have shot deer in the regular season and on the farm permit to help out a couple of farmer friends. The 20 kills them just as dead and just as far if you use sabots. The first shot out of my deerslayer2 with a custom 26in cyr barrel was at 225yds and that deer just dropped like  a stone disappearing out of the scope. That was with an earlier load with a 250gr xtp. Since I have shot and dropped them further than this. If you can hit the kill zone they will go down, don't worry about the energy, look for accuracy. Get a range finder and use the ballistic data on drop and you can extend your range with less recoil. Listen to your wife and go out and get a 20 like the new savage 220 and don't look back, you will be happy.   

[coop]

I have a Savage 220 ordered but am currently shooting a 20 gauge 870 Express w/ a 21" rifled barrel that does extremely well with Remington Accutips. May be just the ticket if you're looking for a pump without shelling out over a grand. I have a 1 3/4X5 Redfield Widefield currently on it. A 3" high sight in @ 50 yds still leaves me around 1" high- dead on @ a 100 yds. That's as far as I've shot it thus far...

[mannyrock]

Bucker,

   I wasn't aware that there was a great debate over the 12 vs. 20 slug.  The 20 slug is perfectly fine out to 125 yards. 

Mannyrock

[SHOOTALL]

Savage 210 in 12 or 20 ga and get on down the road .