Author Topic: scopes and electronic sight devices (Read 926 times)

S.B. · « **on:** January 02, 2004, 05:38:29 PM »

After hunting with my 629 for the first time, this year in the Illinois gun deer season, some improvements seem in order. Does anyone have experience with any electronic sights at O:dark 30 in the morning? How about scopes on pistols at this time of day? Do the electronic sights (aimpoints and like) have a darkened field of view around the dots? The red dot seems like the way to go but not if they don't enhance the whole field of view. Please someone with experience guide this ignorant child. I have seen the electronic sights in action when I competed in the local USPSA matches years back. Any improvements? A standard telescopic scope gathers light but the cross hairs seem like they would be hard to see at first light. Anyone have any thoughts here? We hunt in heavy timber so daylight is several minutes after the sun comes up. The trees filters the light an awful lot, and the deer seem to like the cover of this terrain. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2004, 06:17:23 PM »

I have a 629 too. I have a Trijicon Reflex sight on mine. It's a dot sight with no battery. It uses tritium like their open sights with the glowing dots. It also has fiber optics built in to brighten the dot in bright light. As for the field of view, most dot sights are meant to use with both eyes open. I like mine and got a buck two years ago. The range was around 50 yards. I can hit more consistantly over 25 yards with this sight than I ever could with open sights. I don't care for a scope on a handgun because of the small field of view. The only down side for some would be the finish on the sight matches the M-16's but to me doesn't look bad. (few silver scopes match a stainless gun anyway)

Gregory · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2004, 08:58:32 AM »

I like 2X scopes on my Contender barrels for deer hunting. Nikon is my first choice but Leupold works too. I've not had any problem seeing the crosshairs during legal shooting time.

Bullseye · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2004, 03:07:24 PM »

I deer hunt thick woods and our legal shooting hours are 1/2 before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunrise. I use good quality 2x pistol scopes and can see better through them than the naked eye. Crosshairs show up in these hours also. I do have one scope on a 22 for squirrels that has a lighted crosshair, it is pretty neat early in the year when the leaves are on the trees and the background can be pretty dark.

I have also had cheap scopes, and they are a darker story.

Ed Harris · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2004, 04:04:20 AM »

Has anyone fooled with the laser sights, Crimson Trace, etc. for hunting small game? Seems to me that if you can see the critter well enough to ut the spot on him, that you'd have meat in the pot, if the thing will maintain a decent zero, and if the "spot" has a meaningful relationship to the intended target. I've never used one, so just had to ask the question.

Don't care about shooting "bad guys" only little furry critters that are good to eat. Is their level of precision adequate for small game? Seems to me that you'd need a 1" to 2" spot at 25 yards to be able to see it, and that it should be visible and useable to 50 yards or so to be practical. Don't really care about fantasy 100 yard stuff with a .22 pistol because it doesn't have enough energy out there to be serious. But 50 yards should be possible. Any actual experience out there? The world wants to know.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2004, 12:49:10 PM »

Ed, check your hunting regs and see if lasers are legal for hunting. Here in WV you can't use any device that emits a beam of light so lasers are out.

ftw · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2004, 03:32:39 PM »

I use both scopes and Red dot sights on my handguns. A red dot scope gathers no light and therefore I can only shoot it in the same light as I could open sights. In other words, when it is too dark to see open sights, you cannot use the red dot either. However it is a great sighting aid for my ageing eyes in all other conditions.

Now I have a redhawk with a 2x scope and it is just about the same situation as the red dot but it does extend shooting time just a little on both ends of the day. I have a 2-6X and it is again a little better but smaller handgun scopes just do not enable you to see later as some of the bigger rifle scopes will do.

I still think both systems greatly aid in making more precise shots.

I have never used a laser of any kind so i am blank on that one.

southern utah · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2004, 06:12:34 PM »

SB,
If interested I have a Buehler set of base and rings in stainless for pre drilled S&W frame, silver Aimpoint Weaver style base for early S&W frame.. Also a silver Aimpoint 3000.

MWalker · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2004, 04:08:21 PM »

A good scope during legal hours places ample light onto your retina for you to easily distinguish cross hairs form thick brush at fairly long ranges.

On bright sunny days my red dot can be slightly awkward to sort it out from highly illuminated leaves, so I bought one that has 4 selectable reticules.

I own two Encore pistol barrels with Bushnell Trophy 3 x 6 x 32 scopes mounted on them, they are IMO the best purchase for the dollar.
Riflescopes.com (SWFA) sells them for $149.95.

My 209 x 50 has a Bushnell Trophy multiple reticule red dot that I like, but agin the awkward search for the dot is not a show stopper, because I generally use the cross hair option.

One thing I forgot to mention is what I have learned from reading an article written by Ron Spomer.

When we pursue mounting a scope for improved lighting, your eyesigt has a key role in light absorbtion.

The exit pupil is the beam of light that exits the scope's ocular lens, this beam of light diameter is found in the manufacturers spcifications of their product.

The human eye pupil diameter during low light levels varies with age of the eye.
A young eye may have a pupil diameter of 7 - 8mm
Middle age diameter of 4mm
Older eyes can be less than 4mm.

So if you purchase a scope that has greater exit pupil diameter than the receptive diameter of the pupil, it can be a waste of money on large objective lenses.

Calculate the exit pupil of a scope by dividing the diameter of the objective lense by the magnification power.

Example:
20mm objective / 4X power = a 5mm exit pupil, which should be ample light for a middle aged pupil.

My variable Bushnell at the highest magnification yields a 5.33mm exit pupil, which is part of the reason I can see so much better through my scope. My middle/near seinor aged pupil is easily covered with the beam of light.

Now keep in mind also that the lenses must be of adequate quality to permit light transmission.
Cheap scopes that lack coatings will not permit light to pass through without distortion. Plain glass sucks up about 5% of the available light.
The coatings reduces reflected light off air to glass surfaces, so each lense the light passes through can reduce the effective light.
The more coatings the lenses have, the brighter the light.

So reviewing the manufactures specs is important to help you determine the light transmission efficiency of the scope.

After reading Ron's article I felt more comfortable with scope savy, which has helped me during my recent research of another scope purchase.
:grin:

Catfish · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2004, 07:10:10 AM »

SB,
I don`t like the red dots at all. I started shooting scopes on handgungs in the 60`s and just can`t get used to the dot floating all around. I have friends that love them and can`t stand a scope on a handgun. I would recomand that you try both of them befor you buy anything if possible. If you don`t already, I would suggest that you always shoot handguns with both eyes open, regardless of what sights your useing. With a scoped handgun you should fix both eyes on the target then lower the gun infrount of your shooting eye.When the scope is right the target will just suddenly appear in the scope and you will lose the picture with your other eye. I know alot of good handgun shot that will use neather a scope or a red dot, that`s why I say try befor you buy. The main think to becomeing a good shot with a handgun is practice, you have to burn up alot of ammo no matter what sights you use.

S.B. · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2004, 03:34:53 AM »

Catfish, this topic seems to have been taken way off topic? My question was in regards to either a red dot or scope on a hunting handgun. Personally, I started shooting handguns in the 60's myself. So I'm not without some experience myself. I have competed in PPC, Bullseye, an IPSC competitions but, don't consider myself an expert, by any means. But to keep both eyes open while shooting a handgun seems to suggest that the shooter focus on the target and not the front sight or cross hair. My question isn't how to hit the target, but about the light gathering qualities of one or the other type of sight that are currently on the market.