Author Topic: Muzzle loader question  (Read 1002 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline stevinator

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 221
  • Gender: Male
Muzzle loader question
« on: December 09, 2009, 03:42:17 PM »
I saw a new Traditions Deerhunter 50 cal synthetic stocked, blued percussion model muzzle loader marked down to $99.00 today with the fiber optic sights .I wondered if this would be worth trying, to see if you wanted to get into muzzle loaders.I always hunt deer and own other guns and a bow ,but I have people tell me to try a smokepole and just don't know if I would stay with it.It has factory sling swivels and I kind of liked the sights and syn stock.Also at this store I have about 40.00 bucks worth of coupons. ;D

Offline bubba.50

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (151)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1170
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2009, 06:47:37 PM »
so you would have about $60.00 in it? counting the extra for powder, bullets and a pack of caps, you would be back to about the original c-note. if you try it and don't like it, you should be able to at least get your money back with just the gun. then you could sell powder, bullets and any other accessories you might gather and almost call it a profit. just be sure you are up to the cleaning involved. that's where a lot of newbies go wrong, they let'em rust up then can hardly give them away. just my opinion and worth what you paid for it, bubba.
fetch the hammer maggie-they's a bee on the baby's head!

Offline necchi

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (40)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2009, 07:01:17 PM »
Well it's an ok gun, the synth stock is a minus, but I know guys that add some weight inside the butt to get it to handle better. The Traditions 1-48 barrels will shoot round ball at minute of deer accuracy out too and under 100 yards reliably.
 It's not a fast enough twist for sabots, that's ok you don't need them things anyways.
 If your a successfull bow hunter you'll love the ml.
There is a learning curve and other items you'll need along the way. Patch, ball, cap's, capper, powder measure, not big dollar items just a few things.

It's not an "OMG grap it quick!"  deal, but with your coupons it's defenatly a good buy.

good luck, if ya git it and need some help you can always ask here,,1st thing,,if you do get it,,clean the inside of the barrel and the drum before ya shoot it! I mean till a white patch comes out white. they put a really heavy shipping/packing grease in those things and if it don't all come out you'll have trouble from the get-go.
found elsewhere

Offline Ron T.

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 646
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2009, 08:06:54 PM »
For the small amount of money you'll have in it, I think it's a "good deal" for you.

Like Necchi wrote, there's a "learning curve" and you'll have another couple of hundred dollars to get all the other "accessories" so vital to having and shooting a muzzle loader, but even at that, you'll still have very little invested and should be able to recover your money spent if absolutely necessary.

However, I'm confident that you'll LOVE it... and being a bow hunter, hunting with a muzzle loader is the "next step" in using different hunting instruments.  A 50 caliber ML rifle will increase your game-taking range from a maximum of 30-40 yards out to as much as 100 yards if you "push" it, but 75 or 80 yards would be more "comfortable" with iron sights on deer-sized game.

Just try to have FUN in going through the same "learning curve" that all of us have had to go through.  You'll find there are as many opinions about how to do something "right" as there are people offering those opinions.

Buttttttttttt... believe it or not, you'll come through it a much wiser, better hunter.  And a .50 caliber ML rifle is more than "enough" rifle for deer sized game.  You can also take small game with a .50 caliber patched ball... you can sharpen your shooting skills & aim on squirrels and rabbits.

If you can shoot 3 to 4-inch, 3-shot "groups" at 50 yards, that's accurate enough for deer at reasonable ranges.

Most Traditions .50 caliber rifles use .015" to .016" patches together with a .490" soft lead ball.  I have a Traditions .50 caliber "Shenandoah" with a 33½ inch barrel & a 1:66 twist.   Your rifle's barrel will be about 27-28 inches with a 1:48 twist.  It will stabilize the .50 caliber balls quite well.

I'd recommend that you attempt to find a "mentor" among those guys who shoot muzzle loaders in your area... someone you can ask questions of and get reasonable, knowledgable answers... someone to show you the "how to's" of muzzle loader shooting.

And don't "sweat" the mistakes... 'cause EVERYBODY makes 'em... and don't smoke around black powder... that's about the quickest way to make yourself REAL "unpopular" among the other black powder shooters.

Start out with Goex FFFg black powder.  Swiss Black Powder is supposedly slightly better (cleaner burning, gives higher velocities  with the same load of powder, etc.), but either one will work in your rifle.  You can also use the artifical black powders in a percussion cap rifle.

Get the "magnum" percussion caps... they will light off the powder more assuredly... the Traditions probably uses the #11 caps, but check it out and make sure you buy the ones that fit your rifle.

At Friendship, Indiana (home of the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association) last June, Swiss black powder was $22 a pound, Goex was $14 a pound... a BIG difference for practically the same performance... and Goes is American-made, Swiss is from Switzerland.

Some may recommend you buy FFg black powder, but with your rifle's shorter barrel and your desire to 'work up' the most accurate target load and the most accurate hunting load possible, you're more likely to find it using small increments of powder charge increases, I'd strongly recommend you start out using FFFg powder and work up that target load first.

FFFg powder is faster burning than FFg and generally develops a greater muzzle velocity in shorter barreled rifles quicker than FFg does.

Good luck with your new venture...   ;)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline spooked

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 515
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2009, 04:52:32 AM »
I gave 126$ at basspro years a go for my deerhunter and I wouldn't take that for it..shoots Lee R.E.A.L. bullets jist fine if ya don't overdose the powder..took my first muzzleloading deer with it an a .490 round ball...:-)
Lost between sunrise and sunset yesterday-one golden hour...never to be found or reclaimed:-(

Offline stevinator

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 221
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2009, 04:44:11 PM »
Thanks for the great replies guys,I have hunted all my life and reload shotshells for myself and son to shoot some trap so I am pretty much up on most stuff but I have no clues about muzzle loaders.We have to use shotguns in this state or a pistol or ml rifle during our gun seasons.I have shot deer with the pistol, shotgun and my bow over the years but never a ml rifle.I could get an extra 3-day season with one next year if I bought one.This gun I mentioned has the closed breech or barrel in the back unlike the break opens and in-line ones so you can't use the pellet type powder then?A co-worker and I noticed some local stores are starting to mark them down because the ml season here will be done Sun.He likes the looks of the in-line type and I kind of liked the percussion type.The round ball part wouldn't bother me either.I told him the deerhunter looked more traditional and he said daniel boone didn't have fire sights and syn stock. ;D

Offline bubba.50

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (151)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1170
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2009, 05:52:01 PM »
use the pellets. they'll work just fine. they go in the muzzle same as loose powder. just won't need a measure as they're already the right dose(might require two for some loads). enjoy your new gun and merry christmas friend, bubba.
fetch the hammer maggie-they's a bee on the baby's head!

Offline stevinator

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 221
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2009, 05:01:06 PM »
Thanks bubba and merry christmas to you also.One of the guys said at the store he thought you couldn't shoot pellets in the deer hunter because of the closed back end.A guy at work said he thought you could,so I could try some pellets from him.I may go ahead and get that gun I was checking today to make sure they had stuff mentioned here.I think the guy at the store thought a cap might not light the pellets properly as the flash hole goes at an angle or 45? They had the round balls and 015 016  patches and lots of pellets and the ffg type powders so it wouldn't be hard to get started.

Offline necchi

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (40)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1842
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2009, 07:05:06 PM »
the guy is right,, you'll have a tough time with the pellets, try from your buddy before ya buy'm
found elsewhere

Offline stevinator

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 221
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2009, 04:43:22 AM »
Ok guys what should I pick up to go with this gun in your opinion.You know as far as to clean it and to load it back up in the field or at the range to shoot it easier.I will go the ball and patch route and use ffg type powder.I see they have tubes and things to preload some powder to take with you and some have a bullet starter too.Maybe a stiffer ram rod and some cleaning ends,that sort of thing.Whatever you guys think makes your life easier.

Offline Oscar2287

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2009, 05:56:30 AM »
Wouldn't even waste my time trying the pellets (again) in a sidelock.

I shoot a Renegade percussion #11 and have found that pellets will light "sometimes" but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the pellets are a compressed fg equivalent and have a fffg covering in the back designed to get hit by primer fire from an inline.  

I shoot American Pioneer or regular black powder loose (80-85gr) under a 295 powerbelt (1-48" twist) and that seems to work excellent. 2" groups at 50yds with the old iron sights and knocks the crap out of whatever you hit.

just my 2 cents  ;D

Almost forgot - I had a lot of problems getting the third, fourth, etc rounds to load without wanting to resort to a hammer....  finally had somebody suggest the T/C wet cleaning patches between every shot.  Now I do one wet and then one dry between EVERY shot unless I'm following up on a downed deer ::)  Barely even have to clean the thing when I'm done at the range and it shoots and loads like a dream.
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

Offline stevinator

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 221
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2009, 05:51:28 PM »
I am going to do the cleaning between shots like everyone says, I don't want any issues and think that would be the best to get a good accurate load from everything I read.That way I would have a good idea where the gun will shoot cool and clean for hunting.

Offline Birddog 1

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 194
  • Gender: Male
Re: Muzzle loader question
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2009, 05:05:28 PM »
Ha steven if you have some pellets try puting 5 or 10 gr of powder in the tube first then you will get ignition every time with the caps. Nim
If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to.
This is the last stand on earth.
R.R. 1964


The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear armes is as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in goverment.
Thomas Jefferson