Author Topic: Frizzen won't snap up - HELP  (Read 856 times)

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Offline pol6320

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Frizzen won't snap up - HELP
« on: December 08, 2009, 08:39:11 AM »
Hello All,
I am new to both this forum and traditional muzzleloading. I purchased a new Traditions Tennessee rifle a few weeks ago. This past weekend, I went to the range to fire a few shots.... without any luck  :-\. The frizzen does not snap up to reveal the pan when the flint strikes it. It partially lifts up and the flint does not carry the spark to the pan. At first, I thought it was the placement or size of the flint I was using. When I lift the frizzen and fire the gun, the lock does not even carry the flint to the middle of pan. Can I adjust this?? What is wrong??

Thank you in advance!

Offline Cuts Crooked

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Re: Frizzen won't snap up - HELP
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2009, 12:21:46 PM »
Howdy Pol,

Yer problem can be caused by a number of things. Did you take the lock out and give it a good cleaning b'fore you tried it out? If not, you might try that. Any grease in there can slow things down a bit. Also there might be some grit trapped in there. Try taking the lock out and flushing it with a good solvent, and check for burrs while you've got it out. You should also look for spots where things might be rubbing on the wood in there. If you notice "shiney" spots on the wood that's a pretty good indicator that internals are making contact where they shouldn't. That is easy to fix with a sharp scraper to releave those areas.

Is yer mainspring too weak? Check this while you've got the lock out, with the frizzen forward, cock the hammer and press the sear bar until it snaps forward. Does it fall all the way past the half cock notch? If not suspect burrs or a weak main spring. It's also possible that yer frizzen spring is too stout or there may be a burr in the frizzen stirrup area. check this closely too. Also try to to make it snap the frizen foward while you have it out of thew stock. Replacing a frizzen or main spring is no big deal if needed.

And yes...placement of the flint can be critical. Sometimes finding the right distance from the edge of the flint to the frizzen face is all it takes to get one of these thing running.

Hopefully others will chime in here with other solutions that I haven't thought of. Good luck and I hope you get it it running great, a good flinter is a joy to shoot!
Smokeless is only a passing fad!

"The liar who charms and disarms and wreaths himself in artifice is too agreeable to be called a demon. So we adopt the word "candidate"." Brooke McEldowney

"When a dog has bitten ten kids I have trouble believing he would make a good childs companion just because he now claims he is a good dog and doesn't bite. How's that for a "parable"?"....ME

Offline necchi

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Re: Frizzen won't snap up - HELP
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2009, 06:57:14 PM »
quote from cuts crooked " You should also look for spots where things might be rubbing on the wood in there"

That's kinda the first thing that comes to mind ,,the lock screw may be too tight pulling the main spring into the wood of the stock.
The Traditions rifle should have two screws opposite the lock on the side of the gun,,perhaps you have those turned in too tight, pulling the inside of the lock against the wood,,they only need to be snug not tight, heck you can turn them screws too tight on a T/C or Lyman and pinch the coil spring
found elsewhere

Offline StrawHat

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Re: Frizzen won't snap up - HELP
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2009, 01:41:18 AM »
The frizzen screw could be too snug and slowing it down.  Or the frizzen spring could be one of the ones made from truck springs.  Not being familiar with Traditions guns, I would check everything that has already been mentioned also.
"Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result"  Winston Churchill

"A law without a punishment is merely advice."  anonymous

Offline Ron T.

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Re: Frizzen won't snap up - HELP
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2009, 05:55:34 AM »
Yes... not only CLEAN the lock, but put a bit of grease on the bottom of the frizzen's "leg" where it rides on the "flat" of the spring.  You also need to slowly drop the flint against the frizzen to see where it's hitting.

The flint should hit the frizzen about 1/3rd. of the way down from the top of the frizzen and make a clean "slide" down the face of the frizzen in the MIDDLE (left/right) of the frizzen's width.

You can adjust how far "in" or "out" the flint lays in the cock... plus you can turn the flint over (putting the bevel down) and cause the edge of the flint to hit sooner.  You can easily adjust the flint to hit higher or lower on the frizzen by merely doing so.  Naturally, the higher the flint strikes the face of the frizzen, the more force is put on the frizzen to retract.

If you're using leather to hold the flint in the cock, you might try using two pieces of soft lead rather than leather.  Sometimes, the leather "gives" too much and doesn't force the edge of the flint HARD against the frizzen when would then create exactly the problem you've got.

I've found that by using lead to hold the flint rather than leather to support the flint in the cock, I can more easily and surely put the flint further out in the cock thus causing the flint to strike the frizzen EARLIER which would result in the frizzen being "knocked back" harder by the falling hammer/flint combination.

Once the lead supports get squeezed down and they form to the grooves in the cock and the irregularities in the flint, the whole "situation" becomes more solid and the "push" against the frizzen caused by the falling hammer/flint becomes more "positive" thus causing the frizzen to be pushed back which, in turn, causes the frizzen to "uncover" the frizzen pan faster and wider.

If you have a local muzzle loader's group, you might try asking some of their more knowledgeable members about this problem.  Without seeing it, it's hard to say exactly what the problem or combinations of problems is causing your frizzen to NOT get knocked back by the hammer/flint.

The above suggestions by the other members of our Forum are all valid, but until you "know" exactly why your frizzen isn't being forced open & going beyond the center point of the spring tension which would allow it to open all the way, you can't fix it.  

The mechanism is simple... look at it carefully and allow the cock/hammer/flint to move forward S-L-O-W-L-Y and you may see which one or which of the several "problems" your rifle's frizzen may have.

Don't get discouraged... you're facing a "learning curve"... and rather than "fight" it, ENJOY it and learn from your mistakes.   And you will make a great many  mistakes... we've all "been there and done that", trust me!!!

One piece of equipment you should get is a COČ "unloader" to blow out a "dry ball" (a round, patched ball you've seated without the benefit of putting the powder in first).  It is common knowledge that there are TWO kinds of flintlock shooters, those who HAVE already "dry balled" their rifle and those who WILL dry ball their rifle.

I must have "dry balled" my rifle at least a half a dozen times until I bought my COČ "gun"... and I haven't dry balled it since, but I'm confident I will dry ball it again, sooner or later 'cause we ALL do so with regularity... some more than others!!!   ;D

Enjoy your "learning curve"... to "fight it" only causes you frustration.  In a short time, you'll have most of the "answers" and you'll "smile" when you remember how frustrated you became at all the "problems" (real or imagined) you had at first with your new "toy".   :D

Good luck and make GOOD smoke !~!~!


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."  - Thomas Jefferson

Offline pol6320

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Re: Frizzen won't snap up - HELP
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2009, 10:56:23 AM »
Thank you for all of your responses! I applied T/C bore butter to where the frizzen rotates on the spring and then adjusted my flint, and it works perfectly now.

Saturday was the first day of Flintlock muzzeloader season here in PA, and even though I did not bag a deer, I had a blast.

Thank you again.