Author Topic: Commutarianism....is...  (Read 1006 times)

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Offline ironglow

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Commutarianism....is...
« on: December 02, 2009, 08:03:16 AM »
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2009, 08:25:08 AM »
It was either Marx or Lenin who said capitalism would collide with communism and produce socialism.  Comunitarianism is just another name of socialism.  Socialism stagnates economies, look a Europe.  The countries with more capitalism are more prosperous, those with more socialism are less prosperous. 

Offline BBF

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2009, 12:33:13 PM »
It was either Marx or Lenin who said capitalism would collide with communism and produce socialism.  Comunitarianism is just another name of socialism.  Socialism stagnates economies, look a Europe.  The countries with more capitalism are more prosperous, those with more socialism are less prosperous. 

At one time for sure, now that the EU/Brussel has a handle on most of them they are doing better then the USA.
In case you doubt it, look at the exchange rate of the Euro vs the Dollar.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Mohawk

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2009, 01:11:11 PM »
It was either Marx or Lenin who said capitalism would collide with communism and produce socialism.  Comunitarianism is just another name of socialism.  Socialism stagnates economies, look a Europe.  The countries with more capitalism are more prosperous, those with more socialism are less prosperous. 

At one time for sure, now that the EU/Brussel has a handle on most of them they are doing better then the USA.
In case you doubt it, look at the exchange rate of the Euro vs the Dollar.

Ummm........Have you ever been to eastern Europe?     ::)  Don't care what the monetary exchange says I just know how they live. Moneywise China is a great place to prosper.......Good luck with that!!!

Offline ironglow

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2009, 02:17:16 PM »
 Prosperitry can never replace an individual's  freedom ! They can keep their #@%$^&*#@ Socialism...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline BBF

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2009, 04:19:57 PM »
IG
Their economy is capitalist based. Just because they have a number of social programs doesn't make them Socialist in the Marxist./Fabian style.

Eastern Europe has been under Stalinist  Communism for years and it takes some time to purge that system.
Let us see how long it will be before the USA purges itself from Obama, especially if he makes it through a second term.

China runs a capitalist economy with strict party supervision in absolute everything. They have learned a whole lot since Chairman Mao was in control. The average Chinese is better of in that system then pretty much in their entire history unless he/she tries to buck it !!
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2009, 04:44:54 PM »
Socialism may well be fine for the average socialist. I have no desire to settle for average, I am more than willing to give up vacation days and weekends to work and get just alittle further ahead in life. A socialist would condemn me for putting someone out of work for my behaviour.

40 hours a week gives me a comfortable lifestyle. The extra 25 hrs I spend working a week means College for my kids, two big game hunting trips, a couple long weekends fishing and the occasional family vacation out of state. I spent ten years doing the getting by and doing little outside of home routine. I was happy enough, surviving but not prospering. It was MY CHOICE though. Why on earth should someone be choosing my destiny for me.
**Concealed Carry...Because when seconds count help is only minutes away**

Offline BBF

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2009, 09:41:30 AM »
It also depends on the priorities of the Govt and those that they govern. Do you spend money on armaments to police a good part of the world or space exploration as examples or do you care about the health and welfare of your citizens.
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2009, 11:46:09 AM »
BBF, Europe is NOT doing better than the US.  Our standard of living is about 1/3 higher than Europes.  Poor American families have what AVERAGE Europeans have.  Homes are larger, more TV's, more cars, more appliances like washers, dryers.  Need to check your statistics.  Better in that their governments aren't operating in deficits.  But they have had consistantly higher unemployment over the last 20-30 years.  Americans were the most productive in the world, don't know about now, but probably still are.  What European country can afford a huge military, space exploration, etc.  Even combined they can't do it.  The EU is about = to us in GNP, but they have far more mouths to feed, thus the less available per person.  True they are becoming more capitalist with conservative governments recently and the governments are divesting themselves of certain sectors of the economy creating more competition, thus more work and better products. 

Offline ironglow

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 12:27:48 AM »
Well, just remember some folks not caught in an extreme didactic think some bit of socialism is very freeing...freeing from healthcare tyranny, freeing from bankruptcy, and freeing from all kinds of fears and tyranny. I think the perfect system has attributes of both extreme economic theories. Likely, pre-industrial economy was very socialistic and barter and trade based.

..TM7

  

  TM;

  Also "freeing" from doing your OWN roofing, painting, windows etc on your own home. Must make work for others, don't you see!  I lived in west Europe for 2.5 years, and I found Socialism as very freedom limiting! Yes, some of the people who push for Socialism,... Hollywood types, big politicians, international business people etc..aren't even adept at doing any useful tasks, say nothing about fixing one's own car, roof, sewer, window sashes or anything else..but there are still some here in this country who like to be self-sufficient as much as possible.
  Now it's OK if Mr. & Ms. Socialism doesn't like to do things for themselves and hire it all out...but Socialism has a strange habit of forcing itself on others who don't want anything to do with it.
   Good Grief !! We can see that happening even now, with the Socialists now planted in Washington...They are robbing more choices (and freedom) from us every day...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2009, 12:43:55 AM »
Quote
Yes, some of the people who push for Socialism,... Hollywood types, big politicians, international business people etc

IG the reason those folk push for socialism is due to the fact that they "know" the "rules" dont apply to them. And history will back them up on that! One consolation we have is that when the SHTF the hollywood types are gonna be unemployed, hopefully, unless they get a job doing governemnt propaganda films.

The super rich think socialism will help keep the masses in line and tow the line!
“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline ironglow

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2009, 04:37:20 AM »
Oldshooter;
  How right you are! No matter where it has been practiced,  socialism never "spreads the wealth"..it only "spreads the poverty". Many are the "average" people who think Socialism is the answer..they are in for a rude awakening when it arrives.
  So mant Socialist/Marxist societies where everyone is supposed to be equal. Whether in the old Soviet Union, China, Cuba or elsewhere, there is still a big gap between thw "haves" (Politburo) and the "have nots" are worse than ever they were.
     Some, such as some "educators" are pushing for the Socialist/Marxist system..they are poor history students. Just look at the formation of the Soviet Union, the east Europe states when they went Commie and Cuba; such "useful idiots' as Marx called them, are the first to go, simply because they could easily become dangerous "reactionaries" once reality sets in.
  Can anyone here recall China's "cultural revolution" when thousands of these useful idiots were rounded up and liquidated ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2009, 08:29:54 AM »
They tried it at Jamestown and almost starved the first year.  Went back to private ownership of farmland and were prosperous the next year.  Ancient Greeks tried it and failed.  Sometimes so called socialists get too much power and become militaristic like the Nazi's (National Socialist Party).  The Communists in Russia.  The Facists in Italy.  Right and left wing socialists.  Fabian Socialists want peaceful transition to socialism.  It is all like Winston Churchhill said about Socialism.  One who gets in a bucket and tries to lift himself up.  Pure capitalism spawns invention and inovation to create and produce more or something that everyone wants and needs and to produce it at a lower cost to undersell competition.  It brings out the best ideas in people.  Our government was created to "regulate" commerce, not take it over.  This is to ensure that everyone plays fairly. 

Offline ironglow

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2009, 09:37:33 AM »
DD;
  Ditto, ditto, ditto and ditto...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2009, 10:11:27 AM »
Early Christians tried socialism in Jerusalem and later Paul had to take up offerings in Greece to help them because they almost starved also.  Just doesn't work.  Bible says a man should enjoy the fruits of his labor.  We are to give to those in need or are suffering, but that is voluntary, not forced.  Some such as elderly, disabled, etc. need help, (widows and orphans in Bible).  Bible says if a man doesn't work, he doesn't eat.  There is always some type of work that anyone can do.  I've flipped hamburgers, pushed brooms, cleaned bathrooms, cut grass in my day.  Got and education to make more and provide a decent living.  Anyone can do it if they want to. 

Offline slim rem 7

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2009, 11:21:42 AM »
one nation under GOD with LIBERTY and JUSTICE  for all.that just don t describe socialism..

Offline Oldshooter

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2009, 01:51:29 PM »
Some very sound words there gentlemen!

 Its all been tried before there ain't no new stuff! But  every now and then some educated fool comes along and thinks he can "change" things and make em better. Its immature arrogance and shows a disdain for the nation that enabled them to get where they are. They have taken the rhetoric spewed for generations as gospel and believe that the only reason that their "constituents" did not make good was because they were held back!


Sadly there are those that adore such behavior because they see an opportunity to get a free ride, they expect a free ride!


“Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Offline Squib

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2009, 07:51:31 PM »
short of true anarchy or oppressive "trusts", we don't need the government regulating trade within the us... as for foreign trade and keeping the dollar worth something I don't know what to think (doesn't matter for now though, our currency has fallen)

I don't mind buying cz and taurus, so I'm sort of for foreign trade

Offline Dalton Bros.

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2009, 01:22:38 PM »
+ + + + + + + to everything Dixie Dude has said on the subject.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2009, 07:36:47 AM »
They tried it at Jamestown and almost starved the first year.  Went back to private ownership of farmland and were prosperous the next year.  Ancient Greeks tried it and failed.  Sometimes so called socialists get too much power and become militaristic like the Nazi's (National Socialist Party).  The Communists in Russia.  The Facists in Italy.  Right and left wing socialists.  Fabian Socialists want peaceful transition to socialism.  It is all like Winston Churchhill said about Socialism.  One who gets in a bucket and tries to lift himself up.  Pure capitalism spawns invention and inovation to create and produce more or something that everyone wants and needs and to produce it at a lower cost to undersell competition.  It brings out the best ideas in people.  Our government was created to "regulate" commerce, not take it over.  This is to ensure that everyone plays fairly.  


   They also tried it at Plymouth in the early 1620s..communal crop growing, hunting etc. Naturally, as today there are always the lame & lazy. That is why the first couple years were starvation years. Once Gov Bradford divided the lands and let each family grow their own, the colony started to prosper.
  WE KNOW this only makes sense,..but now each year, higher education through their "ivy tower" instructors, keep cranking out young kids who are ready to try something that has been tried over and over...and failed every time. Most of them smarten up as they mature, but there is a hard core that never learn...and they become liberal politicians.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Squib

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2009, 08:04:12 AM »
well they got the schools softened up, keep trying to keep kids at school longer too... don't let kids be adults till twenty-something now... the educational institutions are actually trying to make people into lemmings.  they're doing a good job!

Offline ironglow

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Re: Commutarianism....is...
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2009, 12:10:19 PM »
  I believe that is their intention, Squid...Control freaks such as  liberal Democrats and Fabian Socialists like those kind opf prople.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)