Anybody ever chronograph a flintlock?

[Canuck Bob]

I am wondering how accurate published data in the Lyman manual is for flintlocks?  It would seem that the vent system would reduce pressures some and have comparable load performance between a percussion and flintlock rifle be somewhat different.

Any opinions?

[coyotejoe]

Probably so, but there is a difference between any two rifles which tends to mask the difference between flint and percussion. Certainly the difference is not enough to be noticeable in the field.

[necchi]

people c-graph trad ml's all the time, but the truth is, and I'll try to answer a little about your sub vrs hyper sonic questions too, it really doesn't amount to much practicality as it applies to round ball. That's the fun or romance if you will of traditional ml shooting, learning the application of your gun for you. The variable of ballistic data known hasn't changed much in 300 years, paper bullseye get hit, Deer die, and grizzly bear live.

 I can very velocity of my load simply by changing seating pressure using the ramrod within the same weight of powder charge. Kinda like a crimp or no crimp in a cartridge, and as in the cartirdge world consistancy is key to accuracy. I press my load with about 60 pounds of force. We detrmined this by using a simple bathroom scale. We brought one out and put it on the concrete pad of our shooting area, put the butt on the scale then had a freind watch the scale as I seated the prb on the charge, trust me it's read 60# very frequently. (real scientific huh?)
 Now onto the flight ballistic of the round ball. It's just that, a sphere. It doesn't have a different meplate on one side or the other, it doesn't have anything specific too "upset" during flight like a flat bottom or a boat tail or spitzer. You can hear the differance of sonic loads by the "crack" of the gun going off vrs a "boom" of the slower charge. It really makes little differance on paper targets, but it does when shooting 200 yard steel silhouette or large game. The truth is as you've seen, is the sphere sheds energy after 125-150 really fast. The issue at that distance is accuracy, are you going to hit the top of that steel 13"x35" target and tip it over or the bottom. Are you going to hit the heart of large game or the shoulder blade.
(I'll add more later, duty call's)

[necchi]

I'm back. So my point is,
 Arguably velocity is a factor yes,
Generally folks are after maximum velocity thinking the terminal ballistics will give greater results.
Maximum velocity seldom, I'll stick my neck out and say rarely,, equals the greatest accuracy. There is always someone who says they get the same group amazingly with 70 grains as the do with 110,,it's horse pucky! Now I'm talking about real life accuracy with open sights and 100 yard targets, not benched and padded or in a vise.

[Ron T.]

I intend to chronograph both my "target" load and "hunting" load next Spring/Summer... should have done it before now, but just never got around to doing it.

I'm guessing that my "target load" using 47 grains of FFFg Swiss in my .50 caliber Traditions "Shenandoah" flintlock (33½" barrel) is just barely subsonic and yielding about 1100 fps.  I'm guessing my hunting load of 85 grains of FFFg Swiss is yielding about 1750-1800 fps, but both velocities are a pure guess, not chronographed loads. 

I say the "target" load is subsonic because it "booms" whereas the 85 grain hunting load "cracks" indicating the rifle ball is breaking the sound barrier.  The hunting load's recoil isn't as much greater than the target load's recoil... which kinda surprised me. 

My best "target" load put 4 out of 5 patched balls into the same enlarged hole in the bottom of the bright orange target paster @ 50 yards with the 5th. shot within an inch (higher) of the enlarged, ragged hole made by the other 4 shots.

The 85 grain hunting load isn't as accurate as the target load... and puts the 5 rifle balls within 2-3 inches of one another at 50 yards about an inch or so above the target paster I use for a "bullseye".  I need to work up a more accurate hunting load and will do so this summer.

Both loads were shot from a bench rest.  Generally, under hunting conditions, I always try to "rest" the rifle either by resting my elbows on my knees while sitting on the ground with my back against a tree or by resting the rifle on an extended tree branch or on my hand which is being held against a tree to helop steady-up the rifle.  In any case, the shots taken are very deliberate and well-aimed... and I won't take a troting or running shot, only a non-moving or walking shot.

I did chronograph my two sons' loads in their inlines.  They were using a 295 grain saboted hollow point bullet in front of three 50-grain powder "pellets".  When the smoke cleared, the chronograph read 2015 fps about 15 feet from the muzzles.  The following year, they went to the 245 grain saboted hollow-point bullet which lessened the rather heavy recoil somewhat. 

Their "point-blank-range" with the 295 grain saboted bullet was 170 yards.  I haven't chronographed the 245 grain bullet yet, so don't know the point-blank-range, but I'd guess it to be around 200 yards.

I limit my shots on deer to about 80 yards maximum... and, frankly, prefer the range to be much shorter.  Yes, with a .50 caliber rifle, I can kill a deer at a greater distance than 80 yards, but I want a "sure kill" and these tired old eyes can't define the iron sights that good anymore... and so, 80 yards is about all the distance I am willing shoot at a deer.   


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

[Canuck Bob]

Thanks for the input guys.

I have decided that I want to shoot light loads and PB's.  I am picking up the Lyman 57 sight for my Deerstalker and will have it installed before the first shot.

I am interested in subsonic fir its noise reduction.  I have decided to load from 30 grains up until I get the crack and then load develop back down for tight groups at 50 paces.  I am planning a 50 pace zero.

I don't hunt anymore but I suspect a rabbit or prairie chicken for the pot might be a possibility on occasion.  Head shots only.

It seems a bit foolish to workup a rabbit load for a .54 but in many ways that is the part of muzzleloading I like.  I can load what I want from rabbit to moose.

[necchi]

I can load what I want from rabbit to moose.

  You got that right,,after all, this is the true forerunner of "Hand loading!" 

[Ron T.]

Thanks for the input guys.

I have decided that I want to shoot light loads and PB's.  I am picking up the Lyman 57 sight for my Deerstalker and will have it installed before the first shot.

I am interested in subsonic fir its noise reduction.  I have decided to load from 30 grains up until I get the crack and then load develop back down for tight groups at 50 paces.  I am planning a 50 pace zero.

I don't hunt anymore but I suspect a rabbit or prairie chicken for the pot might be a possibility on occasion.  Head shots only.

It seems a bit foolish to workup a rabbit load for a .54 but in many ways that is the part of muzzleloading I like.  I can load what I want from rabbit to moose.

Hey Bob...

Your thinking isn't "foolish" at all.  I fully intend to hunt squirrels and take head shots with my .50 caliber Long Rifle... and as you know, a .50 caliber patched rifle ball is "over-kill" for squirrels, but that's the caliber of my rifle and so, that's what I intend to use.   


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.