Will a 6.5 x 223 work

[fwt1712]

I'm trying to decide on a minimum recoil rifle for heavy rifle and would dearly love to use a SAKO L461 (Vixen) action to make a very neat match for my Anschutz. This means a 223 size cartridge though. Will a 6.5x223 work at 500m or should I look at a tcu in 6.5 or 7.

[yankee]

The 6.5 or 7 tcu should give you more case capacity which you will need. About 15  years ago some tried the 7 tcu and was a real mild shooter. The problem was knock down on rams , a lot of elevation needed seems like they used around 20 minutes or more and those slow bullets love to be blown by the wind.  The 6.5 tcu may be the best bet but you will have to work it over pressure to get the bullets to move.  You would probably end up with a 140 or 142 weight bullet for rams. These bullets are going to have to be moving a minimum of 2400 or 2500 fps to even think of being reliable on the rams. That is going to be a good trick for that case.  Still you are going to loose some.  When you start using those small cases and large bullets and running at max plus pressure, problems happen real fast.  Rumor has it a fellow out west was trying just this combo this summer but I have not heard of his results.

[Troy G]

Look into the 6.5 TKS.  It is based on a 6mm BR Norma blown out and necked up.  It is very accurate and recoil is very mild.  You should safely be able to reach velocities of 2650-2700 with 140 gr bullets.  If you need more information let me know.  I own a reamer for the 6.5 TKS and have a reamer print.  I really enjoy shooting this cartridge.

[haroldclark]

Recoil sensitive?  You bet.  I have a Remington 700 short action chambered in 7mm TCU.  It has a 26" barrel and a 2" muzzle break for an overall barrel length of 28 inches.  This is a great rifle.

I shoot at 500 Meter Rifle Range 2 days a week.  I have fired 1990 rounds through the rifle in the past year.

The rifle will not take hard-set Rams at 500 meters, no matter what, at our range.  I have a friend that had one and he ultimately re-barreled it for 7mm BR to take rams more reliably.

A maximum load of IMR4227 with the 120 Nolser Ballistic tip bullet will produce just over 2400 fps.  If I head shoot the ram, it may go down.
I cannot get a 140-grain bullet up to more than 2200 fps and that is still not enough to take the rams reliably unless I shoot them in the head.  I can't do that standing on my hind legs.

I have tried 175-grain bullets.  Didn't work.  The 140-grain bullet is the best weight for the 7mm TCU.

I have studied the 6.5 TCU for this game and it comes in second to the 7mm.

I, also, have two Thompson Contenders in 7mm TCU.  I shoot them more than all my other contenders combined.  I can set rams light at 500 meters and head shoot them from a bench.  That will knock the ram down most of the time.

I really like the 7mm TCU in the rifle.  I don't shoot competition, so I don't get excited if the Rams don't go down every time.  I'm just delighted to hit them standing.

Harold Clark

[dave imas]

I had the pleasure of shooting a 7tcu for about 5 years.  I shot nolser 150's for the short animals and Sierra 175gr bullets for rams.  They worked pretty well, eventually went with the 168gr Match Kings.  Wind was a gigantic pain in the butt given the slow velocities but I had pretty good luck knocking things over.  Certainly lost rams but not really more than anyone else.  The cool thing was that I was usually able to hit more than anyone else.  The lack of recoil made hitting targets much easier.  With today's VLD bullets I would think cartridges of this nature certainly are worth considering.  You can afford to have a lower muzzle velocity because you lose less down range.  I would probably go with the 6.5tcu instead of the 7mm just because of the better ballistics.  6.5 or 7br should be considered as well.   Got to add that the short loads with the .260 Rem or a 6.5x55 can be sweetly mild in recoil while still effective.  Both cartridges allow you to load appropriately for rams.  I've had the bruises on my forehead to prove it!  
dave

[haroldclark]

7 mm TCU or 6.5 mm TCU for Rifle Silhouette
10/26/03

Dave,  great info you provided.  I was just doing some research on 168 Match king in the 7TCU.  I think it might work.  I shoot a lot, so I try to use only the cheaper Remington Bulk Bullets.  The 175-grain RP would not perform to suit me, so I have stayed with the 140 PSPCL.  Since I don't compete, knocking the down is not imperative.  I say that, but what I really mean is I want them to go down or I would not be pursuing another load.

I totally agree with you on the 6.5 mm Swedish Mauser.  I have a model 96 Swede and it is one of my favorite rifles.  The recoil is really mild and when I say mild, I do mean mild like 10 to 11 foot-pounds or recoil energy. :-D With the 140 gr. Sierra SPBT, you rarely leave a ram standing.  When I wrote the earlier reply to this issue, I almost made mention of the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser.

The 6.5 X 55 would be my first choice and I have been toying with the idea of a CZ 550 in 6.5X55mm with the Luz European style stock.  With the commercial rifles, I think one could load them up just a bit more than the old 1896 model or you can keep them in the 2650 fps with the 140 or even go to the 160.  I have not tried the 160-grain bullet yet.

Let's talk about the 260 Remington.  I have two friends that shoot the 260 and both complain of more recoil than the old 1896 Mauser.  One friend went hunting for a woosie pad while shooting the Sako 260.  The other friend has a heavy re-barreled unit and it kicks severely.  Being recoil sensitive, I didn't take them up on their offers to experience the pain with the 260.  I don't know if this is common or not.  Case design could be the only factor that I can come up with.  Of course, stock design makes a difference.

Harold Clark

[dave imas]

my short animal loads are 34gr of N135 for the 260 rem and 38gr of N135 for the 6.5x55  My ram loads are 39gr of N150 for the 260 and 44gr of the same powder for the 6.5 swede.  My experience is that the 260 rem loads have less recoil than the 6.5x55.  Now...  my 260 is a standard rifle with a 26" barrel...  but come to think of it...  I shoot it pretty light.  It weighs just an ounce or two over 9 pounds.  My hunter rifle, Sako TRG, has a factory barrell on it...  21", 22"?     If I had to choose one I would go with a 260 rem.  With that said, I have chosen one.  I shoot the Sako TRG in 6.5x55 for both classes.   Would somebody PLEASE help me make up my mind!?!?!?!?!

dave

[haroldclark]

Dave,
Help you make up your mind?  We could get brain damage with the vast posibilities.

I have loaded up some Sierra 168 MKs for the 7mmTCU rifle and hopefully, I will get 2200 fps.  That should provide 743 foot pounds of energy at the Ram Line.

I'm going to test them tomorrow.  My 700 Remington rifle is a standard weight barrel and stock.  With a scope, it weighs 8.83 pounds and the felt recoil is just a bit over a 223 caliber.  I don't know if the muzzle break helps with recoil at all or not.  I have fired a 7mmTCU in a 24" Contender rifle and I noted more felt recoil.  That baby is a tack driver too.

Wish me luck tomorrow.  I shoot two full days a week at the Rifle Silhouette range.  We have 200 targets.  I declare those two days as exercise.  Pumping Iron, so to speak.

The 260 vs. 6.5X55 is interesting.  I would assume that both take rams.  what bullet weight are you shooting at Rams?

[dave imas]

I shoot the 141gr Cartaruccio's.  Please forgive me for mispelling this great man's name.  His bullets are EXTREMELY accurate.  If not available I shoot the Lapua 139gr.  They both seem to take rams well.  Those that are willing to be taken anyway.
dave

[haroldclark]

fwt1712 & Dave


I tested the 168 Gr. Sierra Matchking bullets today at an estimated velocity of 2271 fps from a 26" 7mm TCU barrel.  It devastated Rams at 500 meters.  I knocked over 20 Rams with it.  I could head shoot them if needed, but it was not necessary.  I didn't have a miss except on that was my doing.  I am thrilled with it.

I used Federal 223 brass that was fireformed and trimmed with 26.7 gr of WCC844 (Military Surplus Powder) and a Winchester small rifle primer.  That was excellent.