Author Topic: Cast bullets in a Desert Eagle??????????????? (Read 1869 times)

Darrell Davis · « **on:** December 28, 2009, 05:29:56 PM »

Even'in handgun shooters,

A friend has a Desert Eagle, and was asking about using cast bullets in it.

Was I correct in telling him it wouldn't really be a good situation?

Any hands on info/knowledge would be welcome.

I really know little about this firearm other then I Personally I don't like the thing!!!!!!!! Wayyyyyyyyyy overly large!!, but he would like to shoot some of my cast bullets so I told him I would try and get the correct scoop on the situation.

Other then my 45acp and .22s, wheel guns are my thing.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

leather5to1 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 28, 2009, 05:47:50 PM »

You were right nothing but jacketed bullets in a DE. Lead or lead base will give you problems.

HAMMERHEAD · « **Reply #2 on:** December 28, 2009, 06:29:18 PM »

Yup, even jacketed bullets with exposed lead at the base like Winchester's Nosler JHP are to be avoided. Once you lead up the gas system, the barrel is shot.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2009, 01:23:50 AM »

mostly hogwash. Cast can be shot in a DE. My buddy shot thousands through his 50ae. the trick is to use a harder alloy then nomal and its one place where a hard lube is advantagous. The hard lube tends to stay on the bullet and not create a lot of fouling. He never had one lick of trouble with his gun and he sold it to another freind that to this day has shot nothing but cast in it. I think its was just something magum research started to keep warantee work to a minimum. they probably figured if a guy didnt know how to clean a gun that hed gum one up shooting cast.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #4 on:** December 29, 2009, 07:05:48 AM »

Very interesting Lloyd!

Thanks and keep em coming!

CDOC

sixshot · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2009, 07:10:21 AM »

Hogwash! Lloyd, I like that!

Dick

Reed1911 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 30, 2009, 04:13:37 AM »

Actually no. I had to send in several customer's barrels to be cleaned by the factory that had lead shot in them. The ports for the gas are VERY small and I never could find a way to clean them out. I went so far as to soak them in mercury even (merc. will eat lead and other heavy metals, gold, silver, etc). Do not ever shoot lead or exposed lead (exposed on the bearing surface) in a DE. Period. The result is a short stroke in the gas cycle that will at first just not fully chamber, then failure to extract, then complete failure to cycle. You can still hand cycle them if the ports are plugged, but that is all.

If you know of a way to clean the ports I'd love to hear it. I think those posting "hogwash" do not have direct experience with this problem. It may be the case that hard cast can be shot, but I honestly have a hard time believing that over time it will not plug the ports.

Dee · « **Reply #7 on:** December 30, 2009, 04:20:36 AM »

Hogwash! A solution much used in the South also. It will cut the crap off most anything. I have a friend that shot many thousands of cast 240 grain semi wadcutters out of one of those ole 44 carbines that Bill Ruger sold back in the seventies with not a hitch.
The only problem he ever had was, he had a habit of tacking a target up to the light pole in his back yard, and shooting the target. About 3 months of that, and the wind blew the pole over. The light company didn't care for that.
Now that story didn't have much to do with shooting cast bullet thru a gas operated fire arm other than, the cast bullets did eventually take the pole down, and they did come out of a gas operated firearm.

Reed1911 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 30, 2009, 04:40:50 AM »

Nothing to do with a DE. You have to take one apart and see how small the ports are to really understand. just a small amount of lead will shut them down in a hurry. I forgot to mention, the last time I checked, the cost to have one cleaned out was 300.00

rogertc1 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 31, 2009, 01:03:26 AM »

I never liked cleaning out the lead in the DE even though you have a tool. I always shot jacketed rounds but that is just me. Mine are in .44Mag. Here is a pic of my IMA Custom Shop I got in 1988:

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #10 on:** December 31, 2009, 02:36:26 AM »

first you do all you can to insure its not leading the ports. Use hard lead alloys and hard lubes. Use some cheap swadged bullets and run them at full velocitys and im sure youll gun it up in no time. Al managed to shoot thousands without trouble through his. Ive heard the same arguments from guys that say you cant shoot cast it a ar15 again ill say hogwash. Lead doesnt just majicaly fly off of bullets and plug things up. If its plugging up your gas port you either have a burr by your gas port or your using a much to soft bullet for the velocitys your trying to run and if its your gas port peeling off the lead its going to foul with copper too. Its mostly bullet lube that is going to foul a gas port and just running a few jacketed rounds out of it when your done should blow any lube fouling out without a problem. Although ive never personaly cleaned on ive seen them apart and anyone who is charging you 300 bucks to clean the gas ports on one should be sent to jail! youll notice in my first post i said MOSTLY hogwash. If you dont know what it takes to make cast bullets work in a gun then no you shouldnt fool with them in something like a DE. But with some intelegence its surely can be done and if you dont know enough about cast bullets allready you probably dont shoot enough to even justify using them in something like a DE.

Dee · « **Reply #11 on:** December 31, 2009, 04:30:21 AM »

I wonder how "hot" the gas escaping INTO the gas port is, and how lead and lube would stand up to that heat? $:-\$

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #12 on:** December 31, 2009, 05:05:59 AM »

OK Lloyd,

You say hard alloy and what are you talking? Linotype?

?

And of course if your talking hard lube you must be talking hard enough to need a heater, correct?

Keep em coming!

CDOC

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #13 on:** January 01, 2010, 02:26:35 AM »

yup what al ended up using was linotype and something llike magma hard blue or red rooster. Im sure any of the commercial hard lubes would work. Its the rare case in cast bullet shooting that you want most of your lube to stay on the bullet instead of being used in the gun. Im sure you could do the same thing for an alloy by water dropping wws. Id also definately use a gas checked bullet. Funny thing is Als 50ae using cast bullets was one of the most accurate handguns ive ever shot. one in groups at 50 yards was the norm for it. But then it shot jacketed real well too.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #14 on:** January 01, 2010, 06:30:30 AM »

Lloyd,

Quenching my cast WW bullets is the norm around here, but if Lennie did wants to try the cast in his DE, I would need to make a lube change as my home brew is relatively soft.

Just had a casting session a few days ago, the first time in a few years.

Did a move 3 or so years back and before that had a couple good casting sessions to tide me over until again in a good situation.

Have been out of some sizes for awhile, so casting was long over due.

Thanks for your and everyone else input and I hope it keep coming for a bit yet.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

Hook686 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 01, 2010, 10:15:44 PM »

I have been told that lead is not good for the DE gas system. I read in this thread that that applies to exposed lead. I have been shooting Semi Jacketed Soft Point. The soft point is exposed lead. Does anyone think this will eventually create a problem ?

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #16 on:** January 02, 2010, 06:30:33 AM »

Hook686,

I believe the "exposed lead" applies to lead which would bare on the barrel/rifling and not an exposed lead tip.

If it did apply to all exposed lead, I would think even less of the DE then I do now.

No offense intended to you or other owners, but I have big hand and picking up a DE is like trying to hold a tank up to fire.

To me they are just overly large.

My friend is a big logger, but has no bigger hands then I do and likes it.

Whatever floats your boat!

Keep em coming!

CDOC

Dee · « **Reply #17 on:** January 02, 2010, 09:36:01 AM »

Darrell, I agree. I have always felt the DE should have an axle and wheels with a hitch on the grip. It should be towed rather than carried. As with the Beretta P, it is overly large and heavy, for the caliber it shoots.
I too hope I didn't offend anyone, as it's just my opinion. If I did, stand in line, it's a bad habit of mine.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #18 on:** January 02, 2010, 12:28:45 PM »

Good one Dee!

With wheels, it would be about right to pull behind my 4wheeler!

And as per not likeing someones pet shooter, when you get to be an Ol'Coot like me, folk better figure it comes under the heading of be'in a grumpy Ol'Coot and give me a few miles of slack.

My friend and I go round and round and I keep pushing my RedHawk while he still thinks he loves his DE.

I do have one on him however, 2 - 3 years back he, his wifle and some other friends went to Alaska to hunt brown bear..

Lennie wanted to pack a handgun in addition to his .338 and a knife bout half as big as Texas - only slight embelishment there - and His DE just has not been relyable, sooooooooo HE TOOK MY REDHAWK!!!!!!!!!!! complete with my 310gr LBT handloads.

He didn't need the handgun OR the beeeeeeeeeeeg knife, but he did have a usefull and relyable sidearm if needed. A lot more then can be said for his DE.

He figures his hand loads may be a bit hot for the DE, but they have been in the process of building a new log home for the past 3 years or so, which means he has been spending no time at the loading bench. Time will tell.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2010, 01:56:00 AM »

got to agree with the others on its shootablility. I even had problems with als feeding due to the fact the grip was so big that i didnt get a good enough grip on it and a light grip with one will cause misfeeding. I have relitively large hands to boot. Its way to big of a gun for a hunting gun although i did see Al shoot a fallow deer with his. One nice thing about them is there sure mild for recoil.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #20 on:** January 03, 2010, 05:19:32 AM »

Your correct on the recoil thing, Lloyd.

I have only shot Lennie's DE a VERY few times, and don't recall any failures at that time.

I will probably see him today and will try to remember to pass along some of the results of this thread.

He is so tough and strong I doubt he is "limp wristing" his DE, but I will mention that possibility

Did get out for another casting session yesterday.

This was my friends - new casting partner - second time casting, and running 5 molds I was at time hard pressed to keep up with him on the pouring.

Without a good heat source and my bottom pour ladle, it wouldn't have happened.

His first time Marc was pretty slow until towards the last of the session, but can't say that for yesterday.

I didn't weigh the results, but I am guessing 30 - 40 pounds of production, .38/357, 45acp, and 3 - .44 molds.

This was in about 2 1/2 to 3 hours of casting time.

Used the same molds earlier in the week for our first session, except had enough .40s so pulled it out of the line-up and added a third .44 mold for this go around.

Since the boys have been gone from home, I have needed to breakin other casting partners.

One son still uses bullets from my production, and my "new" partner also shoots 3 calibers we were casting, so a bit of an effort on their part helps me and make lots of bullets for all of us.

Thanks for all the in-put.

Keep em coming!

CDOC

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #21 on:** January 07, 2010, 11:43:35 AM »

Well, did get all the bullets sorted and culled out and a rough weight for the two sessions is about 106lbs of bullets.

That should keep my friend, a son, a couple other friends and myself shoot'in for a bit.

That is unless I get the RedLable moved and end up with that #1 - 45/70. If that happens, I'll be look'in for some new molds and some more casting sessions.

By the way Lloyd, what alloy are you using for your cast bullet hunting?

I cast almost entirely with WW. Do have a stash of lino, but very seldom use any of it.

Talking to a friend the other day who is big into the Black Powder cartridge "silly-wet" shoot'in and he is using 30/1 lead/tin for his bullets, said some shooters were going 40/1.

He is using molds from Buffalo Arms here in Ideeeeeeeho. Says they are a good place to deal with and make very good molds for the big bore shooters.

Keep em coming!

CDOC