Author Topic: Carbide dies  (Read 601 times)

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Offline Empty Quiver

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Carbide dies
« on: January 24, 2010, 02:28:38 PM »
I'm needing to pick up dies for the 45/70, I know the carbide dies are preferable for straight wall cartridges. They are not on the shelves around here. RCBS three die sets in normal steel are available though. I would just as soon buy locally rather than order it online as shipping tends to be a lesson in proctology.

What is the deal here? I'm not really planning on making thousands of rounds, although I suppose it does sneak up on a person. Were these pistol rounds maybe the volume would be much higher.

Is this a wear issue or is there some other aspect I don't know about. This is new to me at this point, Ive run a couple hundred bottleneck cases through the process and I'm happy enough with the results so far.

The crimping thing has me a bit concerned. I know it is quite important in a tube mag gun and don't want any suprises. I'm mechanicaly inclined and fairly intelligent, so I'm pretty sure I'll be able to figure this out. I am not afraid to ask for pointers though. I'm using a rock chucker press if it matters any.

Any advice will be appreciated.
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Offline securitysix

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Re: Carbide dies
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2010, 02:35:24 PM »
With the .45-70, you may still have to lube cases with carbide dies.  Not sure how much, if any, body taper the big case has, but I now the .30 Carbine has enough that lube is still required even with carbide dies.

Offline Dand

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Re: Carbide dies
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2010, 02:45:43 PM »
I'm not positive but I think the there is too much taper in the 45-70 design to be workable for a carbide die. At least I didn't find a carbide sizer offered at RCBS. The big advantage to carbide dies for those cases straight enough is that you can size cases without lubing them ( or with very little lube) then cleaning them.  A real time saver, and very nice when working with small cases like 9mm etc.  Crimping will not be done with your size die - most bullet seating dies are made to crimp too - depending on how far down you screw the die. Or you can get a separate crimp die from some makers.  I really like the factory crimp dies made by Lee for rounds like the 30-30, 348 etc.  but the standard roll crimp built into most brands of dies work very well too. Just read the instructions that come with your die set or in some of the better reloading manuals like Lyman. Yes it IS important to crimp well in tube magazine guns that have strong recoil. But not hard to do. You don't want the bullets pushed deeper into the case nor do you want them creeping out under recoil. Either situation can make a problem. Keeping case lengths uniform by trimming as needed speeds the process when seating and crimping bullets consistently.  HTH
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Carbide dies
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2010, 04:43:20 PM »
So the fact that they don't exist is what is slowing me down. That would certainly explain my not finding them!

The carbide deal is to eliminate case lube primarily. I'll further assume that is a big deal on progressive presses, otherwise they wouldn't be so progressive.

Could that third die be a crimping die? Now I wish I had just picked the darn thing up today.

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Offline Tom W.

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Re: Carbide dies
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2010, 05:19:06 PM »
You should get a Sizing/decapping die, an expanding die, and a seating/crimping die.
Tom
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Carbide dies
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2010, 05:55:15 PM »
Thanks Tom, Guess I'll figure this all out soon enough.  When I hear about carbide my mind goes to an abrasion and wear properties mode, and I just could not wrap my mind around running so much brass through a steel die that I would wear it out.
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Offline cybin

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Re: Carbide dies
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2010, 05:07:50 PM »
I would look real close at the Lee dies--they seem to do the job real well and not break the bank in doing it--I especially like their crimp dies

cybin

Offline Steve P

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Re: Carbide dies
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2010, 07:06:28 AM »
Your 45-70 is likely a single shot and you will only full length size your cases the very first time.  From then on you only want to size to the depth of the bullet.  Imperial sizing die wax makes for a very smooth sizing operation when doing the bullet depth sizing.

Steve :) 

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Offline Darrell Davis

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Re: Carbide dies
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2010, 07:51:24 AM »
Yep, Imperial Sizing Wax is good stuff and a little goes a long ways.

Find that my RCBS lube works for most everything, but for heavy sizing or case forming the Imperial Sizing Wax is just the ticket.

Keep em coming!

CDOC
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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Carbide dies
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2010, 03:07:06 PM »
I'll be running these loads through a 1895 Marlin. I'm figuring the length will be important when crimping and for feeding properly.
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Offline Dand

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Re: Carbide dies
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2010, 09:20:43 PM »
Yep case length is important when using the standard roll crimps most die sets provide. If you use the Lee factory crimp its not quite as important unless a case stretches quite a bit - then you need to keep an eye out for case stretching near the head (base). You might want to hang out on the Marlin Lever gun section of GB for some info on cartridge length etc.  I don't load 45-70 but a lot of others.  I would expect reloading 45-70 for Marlins is darned simple just following basic directions - don't over worry the process. Handloading can be a detail fanatic's dream - there can be no end to it for some. But you don't have to get to that level for good basic ammo.

Oh and a case lube I like better for every day use is Hornady's Unique in a a little container like cottage cheese tub. My tub has lasted many years. In my cool climate and basic sizing I find it easier to use than Imperial Wax. Its a bit softer and wipes on the cases easier with my fingers. Wipes off pretty easy with paper towel after sizing. And you can oil your leather with it - it smells a lot like some brands of Mink oil - very mild smell.

Oh, one thing I do when I get new or new to me size dies is take a Q tip with a little lube and wipe the inside of the die well. My only near problem with cases getting stuck was with new dies.
And keep your cases clean before sizing - will keep your dies working better, lube works better.

With the Hornady lube: I put a bit more lube the the first couple cases in a batch, run them thru to get the die re-lubed. Then I dab my finger tips into the tub just often enough keep just a tiny bit of lube on my fingers, grab a case, roll it with my fingers set it in the  shell holder, slide my fingers down the case body to the base then run it thru the die. Some times I drag a finger tip around the mouth of the case if I think the inner case neck needs a bit of lube. But mostly I graphite my inner case necks with Imperial's (Redding now) graphite lube. But that's one of those details that a beginner doesn't need to mess with, especially on a straight wall case. I mostly load bottle neck cases, 223, 30-30, 30-06, 300 win mag, 348 win when using lube. I use Carbide dies for all my straight wall handgun ammo, 9mm, 38/357, 41, 40.

Remember you don't want lube in the primer pocket or much on the inside of the case where it might contaminate the powder or let the bullet slip. A tiny bit the inside of the neck makes it easier to pull the case off the expander ball and may keep cases from stretching. But that is probably more noticeable in bottle neck cases.

Again, I think you need to get a loading manual and read about the whole process.
NRA Life

liberal Justice Hugo Black said, and I quote: "There are 'absolutes' in our Bill of Rights, and they were put there on purpose by men who knew what words meant and meant their prohibitions to be 'absolutes.'" End quote. From a recent article by Wayne LaPierre NRA

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Carbide dies
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2010, 05:48:01 AM »
I'm glad to hear that a straight forward reload is a pretty simple thing and to relax. The fella that convinced me to start reloading is of the relaxed school. I figured this would be a very simple process and relaxing to boot. It seems the more I investigate the more I find that shoulda, coulda been done.

I can appreciate the danger involved, but at the same time it seems that obsessive compulsive types really love reloading.
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