Author Topic: Bigger predator than I had planned, was a bit undergunned. (Read 1865 times)

Thebear_78 · « **on:** January 18, 2010, 11:05:11 AM »

I was out rabbit and predator hunting saterday. Me and a buddy rode our 4 wheelers back about 15 miles on a popular Matsu valley trail. One the way riding out I ran across a pretty fair sized grizz. It was standing on a small bluff about 120 yards away when I pulled up.

The only problem was that the only rifles I had with me where my 10/22 and T/C encore 22-250. I didn't even have my 10mm on me that I normally carry everywehre I go. Of all the days to forget it. I shortly debated trying to put a 50gr JSP behind the shoulder in the ribs, maybe it would take out the lungs, but decided against it. Just wasn't keen on following up a wounded bear with a single shot 22-250! My buddy kindly offered to loan me his single action 45 colt to head after it but still turned it down.

I guess I better start throwing my 300 RUM in the rifle boot from now on. Might be a little rough on fox or coyote but a whole lot better for bears.

I really didn't expect any bears would be out right now, It was in the low 20s today and has been cold for the last few weeks. I guess it just goes to show that you just never know when a bear might turn up.

I'm kind of bummed because he would have made a really nice rug, his hide was perfect, but either way was still cool to see.

securitysix · « **Reply #1 on:** January 18, 2010, 06:47:44 PM »

Is it legal to hunt grizzlies in your area? If so, are they in season right now? I ask because I actually don't know the answer to either question. If the answer to either is "no", then the only reason to shoot a grizzly is if he is an immediate threat. If he's 120 yards out, he's no threat.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2010, 09:35:53 PM »

Griz are open in this GMU from september 1st - May 31st and I have a brown bear tag. It would have been very legal, just didn't have quite enough firepower. I think that I could probably have gotten thru to the lungs with a little tougher bullet, but the chances of that 50gr JHP splashing on the ribs was more than I was willing to take.

Let me make this clear, I at no time thought of this bear as a threat, if anything I was the threat to him. I wouldn't normally pass up a chance on collecting a nice griz like that.

securitysix · « **Reply #3 on:** January 19, 2010, 01:38:49 PM »

OK, wanted to make sure it was legal to shoot grizz in your area. I still wouldn't try with a .22-250. I know Inuit used to hunt polar bears with .222 Remingtons, but I just don't have that kind of crazy with me. With big bears, big bullets is better IMO.

hillbill · « **Reply #4 on:** January 19, 2010, 02:25:26 PM »

im thinkin yu did the right thing, no matter how much it hurts.id of wanted a bigger gun for sure. hang tite!

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 19, 2010, 05:55:07 PM »

I'll probably head back out there this weekend, bring a bigger gun and see if I can find his tracks. Its been warm, upper 20s and I've heard from a few guys that some bears are out wandering around.n these mild winters they get up and stretch their legs once and a while.

Catfish · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2010, 08:14:15 AM »

I think you did a very wise thing by passing on that one. I feel that with the fire power you had all you could have done was make him mad, and you don`t want to make them made.

Buckskin · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2010, 10:17:24 AM »

Come on... With a 22-250 at 120 yards you should have been able to crack him in the eye for a brain shot!

454Puma · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2010, 11:23:27 AM »

Even if you had your 10mm you were way under gunned! Cause getting within 50 yards to use that little auto round would have been way to close! Better get yourself a nice 44 Mag, 45LC or 454 Casull to carry! all three out perform the little 10mm!

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2010, 04:43:47 PM »

A lot of people downplay the effectiveness of a 10mm. It will penetrate up there with all three the rounds you mentioned and I can put 15 rounds downrange faster and more accurately with my 10mm than I can place the six with a wheelgun. A few of us guys use the 10mm up here, a 200gr JFP @ 1325fps is a pretty potent round and I have seen them completely penetrate a 6.5' bear neck to nuts. I also have some 220 cast loads that are super penetrators. If I was hunting with a handgun as a primary gun I would probalby go with 44, 454, or 500. Or a hand rifle, encore, with large caliber. For backup work I haven't found a better carry gun than my glock 20.

We regularly practice with our handguns shooting balloons suspended above a remote control car as it races towards you. Its a great equalizer and allows you to see just how good of a shot you are, or aren't.

While the 10mm isn't ideal its a great comprimise adn I wouldn't think twice about pumping several rounds into a bear.

PS bears aren't bullet proof and used to regulary be killed with 357mags back when they were the latest and greatest.

Buckskin · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2010, 05:08:55 AM »

Quote from: Thebear_78 on January 21, 2010, 04:43:47 PM

PS bears aren't bullet proof and used to regulary be killed with 357mags back when they were the latest and greatest.

Yes unfortunately most of us in the lower 48 haven't even seen a brown/griz in the wild much less have the awesome opportunity to hunt them. So they all become mystically bigger than life and of the Kodiak 1200lb class. When I was in Soldotna last summer a lot of the people I talked to were more concerned with the blacks (bears) than the brown/griz as far as attacks go. Even though while I was there a jogger killed a charging old brown boar with is 454 casull at his feet in town.

Sourdough · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2010, 11:03:15 AM »

Bear: Been in the same spot last fall with a .17HMR. So I started carrying the .223 the rest of the fall till after freeze up.

Depending on your confidence with the 22-250, it would have done the job. But unless you are 100% confident of hitting a quarter at that range, and putting it right behind the ear, you did the best thing to just back off and go for a bigger gun.

I always carry a 30-06 or bigger in the winter, just for winter bears. Up here in the interior a winter bear means big trouble. If it's out during the winter it means it is starving or sick. In either case it needs to be killed quick, before it comes in and starts killing dogs and kids.

Good luck finding it. Rog

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2010, 04:47:18 PM »

I think it comes down to my confidence in the 50gr JHP, I don't think it would have held together, even hitting the skull. I've been meaning to load up some 53gr TSX for my 22-250, mainly for wolves but I think it might have wworked out this time with the bear. A bears ribs aren't that thick and I think it would have punched thru with the tsx, AFter I had popped the lungs would have expired in a timely enough fashion. Either way would have felt way better with a bigger rifle. I have a 30/06 barrel for my encore and it wouldn't be that big a deal to throw it in my pack. Could always swtich to it if needed.

Normally I carry my 300 RUM in the boot and either the 22lr or 222 rem on the front of the wheeler. JUst took out this encore because I just brought it back up and was thinking about punching some fur with it. I have some reduced loads for the 222 that duplicate 22mag pererformance with little noise for shooting the occasional rabbit and run 40gr vmax @ 3100fsp for fur. Its a tad light for wolves at any range but works for most calling scenarios. I'm going back out tomorrow and will have both the 300rum and 10mm with me.

Sourdough · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2010, 09:19:45 AM »

Forget hitting the skull even with the 30-06. You want to slip it in between the skull and the spine, straight into the brain chamber. Anywhere else and you will just make it mad. Lung shots are OK if it does not know you are there, or you are in a position it can not reach you. If the Griz knows you are there, and you are on the ground, best not to shoot. Unless you are confident you can break the spine.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2010, 06:10:32 PM »

Well, he must be back at his nap. Went by there today, but temp was hovering around zero. I had my 9.3x62 loaded with 286gr partitions today, and obviously I would see a really pretty fox right at over 300 yards. You just never have the right gun when you need it!

Oh well, another beautiful day out and about. Could have been a lot worse.

Siskiyou · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2010, 05:51:03 AM »

Any encounter with a griz in my eye can be a close one. I was fishing a stream in B.C. when I heard a griz in the brush. We made eye contact and I made a retreat back to the boat on the shoreline. My fishing partner and I spent the day in the boat. Catching was better on the stream, but I did not want to be the one caught. There was “No Firearm” option for me.

My only option was retreat. Anybody known how effective a fly rod is on bear?

Cheesehead · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2010, 05:54:58 AM »

What weight rod are we talking about?

Cheese

Sourdough · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2010, 03:31:42 PM »

Siskiyou: You made me think about a fishing trip we made to the Gulkana back when Sky was about 7. We had caught our limit of Salmon and after filleting them I had them in a big cooler on ice. I placed the cooler on top of the camper, out of reach of bears. I thought.

About 1 AM we felt the truck start shaking. Sky went to the door and opened the curtain. Sky closed the curtain real quick, looked at his Mom and said "A big Bear's belly". I opened the emergency hatch and stood up. I could see a Grizzly standing on the tailgate, trying to climb up over the back of the camper, to reach the cooler. All our fishing rods were lying there on the roof of the camper. I picked up a medium weight spinning rig and started hitting the Griz in the nose. I mean I was really laying it into it's nose. Fast strokes, just laying it into it's nose and face.

Ole Griz roared, stepped back and fell off the tailgate, just as Michelle stood up with her 12ga. Ole Griz landed half on and half off the picnic table. Causing it to roll under the rear of the truck. The truck was really rocking as the bear was getting out from under the truck. When the bear got out and was standing in the middle of our camping space, it went bazerk. Ole Griz totally distroyed a cooler, a tackle box, a screen house, two lawn chairs, and a large trash can the camp ground had chained to a post.

Then the Griz walked down the camp ground, looking at all the tents, and disappeared out on the river.

mechanic · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2010, 05:17:41 PM »

And had old Ben been in the camper with Sourdough and company, said camper would have needed ventilation.................

Siskiyou · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2010, 07:21:12 PM »

The fly rod was a nice Japanese bamboo rod, in a wood box and half dozen fly’s. As I recall I bought it at the Hudson Bay Store in Grand Prairie, Alberta, Canada in 1961. I still have it, but I have no clue at what weight it is rated. I broke it fighting a salmon. I believe it is more of a trout rod. I understand those old Japanese rods have a following. I did a very unprofessional repair job on it.

The bottomline is that it broke on a nice salmon (my youth error); a griz would have had it as an appetizer on its way to me.

Sourdough · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2010, 03:37:44 AM »

Mechanic: You are right, said Griz could have opened the locked door very easily. That is why Michelle sleeps with a 12ga.

FredWT · « **Reply #21 on:** January 31, 2010, 08:08:15 AM »

Quote from: Thebear_78 on January 21, 2010, 04:43:47 PM

I can put 15 rounds downrange faster and more accurately with my 10mm than I can place the six with a wheelgun.

Interesting. 15 to 6. I see you do not practice much with a wheelgun. Nice choice with the 10 though. It is a hot ticket. If you are good with it, then you are good with it.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 31, 2010, 08:22:13 AM »

I used to carry a 4" 629 S&W. Shooting 300gr hard cast. I have also played around with 4" 500 smith, 6" 454, and 4 5/8" 45 colt blackhawk. They all shot well, the smith was just plain too heavy, The 454 and 45 colt where single action, and heavy. The 629 in 44 mag was the best all around weight to power, packability to shootability of the bunch but still didn't compare to how well I could shoot an auto. After haveing a buddy drill a few 200gr FP FMJ thru a 6+ foot bear neck to nuts, both exited, bear died. I started thinking more and more about an auto for field carry. I had a custom 10mm double stack 1911 when I shot pins, Shot it till it wore out. KIlled a few deer with it and was very comfortable with it. Tried a buddies Glock 20 SF and kina liked it. Been shooting one ever since. The adition of the 6" lone wolf barrel added 125fps of velosity over 200gr Bufalo bore loads and allowed me to shoot hard cast lead too.

I actually have shot quite a bit with a wheel gun. I can shoot a wheel gun as well as most. I have just shot a few thousand rounds more with the auto, I used to shoot bowling pins a lot and got pretty good at throwing lead as fast as I could. The recoil with 44 mag loads and recovery time really cuts into how fast I can get round downrange and still be accurate and after doing the "charging bear" test time and again found I was much more accurate and consisstant with the large auto. Accuracy with a good wheelgun is just as good but not nearly as fast. Give it a try some time.

Have a buddy run a remote control car at you as fast as it will go with side to side joging, turn draw and shoot at a balloon suspended from a straightend coathanger above the car. It is a humbling experience the first few times.

blksqurl · « **Reply #23 on:** February 03, 2010, 07:55:30 AM »

22-250 in the lungs broad side he wouldn't have gone more than 30 feet.

Buckskin · « **Reply #24 on:** February 03, 2010, 01:02:12 PM »

Unless that tiny little bullet explodes on impact of a rib.

blksqurl · « **Reply #25 on:** February 04, 2010, 01:34:13 PM »

GOOD POINT.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #26 on:** February 04, 2010, 01:45:05 PM »

might just load up a few FMJ

or some 90 grainers

Cottonwood · « **Reply #27 on:** February 07, 2010, 04:04:17 AM »

Quote from: Thebear_78 on January 21, 2010, 04:43:47 PM

A lot of people downplay the effectiveness of a 10mm. It will penetrate up there with all three the rounds you mentioned and I can put 15 rounds downrange faster and more accurately with my 10mm than I can place the six with a wheelgun. A few of us guys use the 10mm up here, a 200gr JFP @ 1325fps is a pretty potent round and I have seen them completely penetrate a 6.5' bear neck to nuts. I also have some 220 cast loads that are super penetrators. If I was hunting with a handgun as a primary gun I would probalby go with 44, 454, or 500. Or a hand rifle, encore, with large caliber. For backup work I haven't found a better carry gun than my glock 20.

We regularly practice with our handguns shooting balloons suspended above a remote control car as it races towards you. Its a great equalizer and allows you to see just how good of a shot you are, or aren't.

While the 10mm isn't ideal its a great comprimise adn I wouldn't think twice about pumping several rounds into a bear.

PS bears aren't bullet proof and used to regulary be killed with 357mags back when they were the latest and greatest.

Well said, as I also carry the Glock 20SF in bear country where I live.