358 shot shells

[eroyd]

Can I load some of those Speer 357 plastic shot shells in my 358 win (or .429 ones in my 444) . It would be nice to be able to harvest those grouse that always appear at close range while big game hunting, without wasting a real bullet and waking up the valley.

[John Traveler]

YES,

of course you can load the Speer plastic shot capsules into the longer .358 Win and .444 cases.... but with the following conditions:

1.  Don't try to exceed recommended velocity (about 1100-1200 fps in the .38 Special and .44 Magnum)

2.  Use relatively fast b urning powder, starting about the same charge weights as the pistol cartridges (loading data on box).

3.  Test for pattern effectiveness.  

You will find that the longer rifle barrels may make for very splotchy shot patterns.

HTH
John

[BCB]

eroyd,

I agree with John.  But, the grouse are going to have to be AWFULLY CLOSE for these shot capsule loads to be effective!!!  I have shot rabbits using a 44 Magnum and the shot capsules, filled with #4 shot copper, at distances up to 12 feet!!!  One or 2 of the #4 shot is all that is required to end a rabbit's existence.  Effective range of these shot capsule loads isn't all that great.  Good-luck...BCB

[eroyd]

12 feet is plenty. Seems grouse in these parts will easily allow you to come within about 8-10 feet without flying. I have even caught one with my bare hands but that was an exception. I'm lousy at throwing rocks! Hopefully with a light shot load I can aim for the head and have a grouse for the pan.

[hans g./UpS]

Have you considered instead,a single piece of 000 buckshot or 358 roundball with several grains of fast burning powder e.g. Bllseye, Unique,etc. ? Just seat it into the neck. Sounds like 22 L.R. going off, probably ~ energy.

[eroyd]

Good idea. Never thought of using a single lead roundball or even a cast pistol bullet for that matter. Perhaps w/ 5 grs. of something like unique..

I vaguely recall at an outdoors show several years ago some outfit selling inserts that were the same shape and size of many popular cartridges but were actually a little sub-gun that used a starter cap and a roundball. You loaded it then chambered it in your rifle and fired as per normal. Haven't seen one since so I guess they weren't a hit.

[John Traveler]

Those buck-shot and primer adapters are still available, as are the pistol-caliber adapters for larger center-fire rifle cartridges.

The only problem I can think of is the potential for a lead ball stuck in your bore or chamber because of the low velocities.

I remember some big-name gun writer of a couple generations ago... Elmer Keith or Jack O-Connor, or some such, that advised that he would never go into the field with reduced-ball loads after his friend shot a grizzly using one, thinking it was a full-charge round.  Must have made for some *interesting* moments until he could reload and fire again!

John

[eroyd]

Well the 358 bird shot experiment was a failure. I shot at a pie plate about 15  feet away and not one pellet hit the target. The pellets formed a rough 2 foot diameter ring around the target. (a .22 shot shell does better)

I suspect along the length of the barrel the shot klings to the rifling groves and sprays out into a broad ring at the muzzle.

Next I'll try a single buckshot or a lead pistol bullet.