Turkish Mauser ?

[Masterblaster1]

I have a 1945 Turkish Mauser in 8x57 mm that has been deemed safe to shoot by a gunsmith. I understand these rifles use a large ring design with a small (dia) shank barrel. My question is, to what level should I handload the ammo to? Light loads that are about equal to 30-30 in power, middle loads or would it be safe with full power loads. I know to watch for signs of pressure, just wondering what everyones opinion is on how hot or not these rifles should be loaded.

[TribReady]

I have a little experience from a turk that I used to have. It was a 1943 I think.
I fired full load milsurp ammo thru it.

A 40's turk was meant for 40's turk (or equivalent) ammo which was loaded hot

[billy_56081]

I have to second Tribready on this, if the gunsmith deamed it safe it should handle all standard full pressure loadings. The 98 is a good strong action with alot of saftey features built in. Good luck and have fun.

[Mikey]

196-200 gn bullets to 2500'/sec, and that's below max.  I believe the Turkish Mausers have the same twist as other 8mm Mausers but they favored 150 gn (?) ammo, I think.....

[Brithunter]

The original loading for the 8x57JS cartridge was a 154 grain Spitzer bullet of 0.323" at around 2950fps and was introduced in 1905. The Germans later went to a heavier bullet to retain more hitting power at extreme ranges for machine guns just as the US did but the US dropped back to the 150 grain bullet whilst germany I believe retained the 196 grain. Turkey stayed with the original 154 grain design.

[NickSS]

The germans used the heavy ball ammo to simplify ammo supply.  They developed the heavy ball cartridge for machinegun use during WWII when extremely long range machine gun work was often used.  The US developed the M2 ball of 173 gr for the same reason.  Germany used machineguns all through WWII at the rate of two per infantry squad (double what the US used)  I read a memoir of a German soldier who was a sniper on the eastern front and he said in it that the Russian 91/30 was considered to be more accurate than the Mauser by the german soldiers due to the heavy recoil of the mauser and the lighter recoil of the Moison.  He noted that a lot of his buddies had bruised shoulders due to the recoil of their rifles.  I have shot heavy ball in a 98K and can attest to the fact that extended fireing will become uncomfortable and contribute to flinching.

[dogngun]

I owned a couple Turks back when they were cheap. Think what you will about the Turkish Army, but I have never seen one with a bad bore and they all have been good shooters for me. I'd like to set one up with a scout mount and a better trigger just to see what that long barrel is really capable of. Very underrated, tough rifle-some with beautiful wood.

mark

[mrussel]

I owned a couple Turks back when they were cheap. Think what you will about the Turkish Army, but I have never seen one with a bad bore and they all have been good shooters for me. I'd like to set one up with a scout mount and a better trigger just to see what that long barrel is really capable of. Very underrated, tough rifle-some with beautiful wood.

mark

 I just picked one up myself. 65 dollars from a pawn shop. Im still cleaning it up and will have to send it to to a gunsmith to be checked before I shoot it. Looks like its going to be a fun rifle though.

[Brithunter]

I am sorry but why do you need a Gunsmiths opinion on whether a rifle is safe to shoot or not?

If a gun needs fixing beyond the normal replacing of minor bits then it nevers see a smith. Until the other day i had never checked a rifles headspace  didn't see the need it was only that I had to buy some guages for a re-barrel so we could check the headspace. The gunsmith doing the re-barreling don't get much call for 303  . So I brought a set of Button guages from Oakies guages and as I have them I compared the headspace of my various 303 rifles. One a Martini Muscat closes on a the No-go but not on the field. I have shot the rifle and will continue to do so.

One did surprise me as it was a re-chamber job and it too failed the No-Go which it should not do so tomorrow I will be speaking to the gunsmith responsible (he has been away at a big show at Bisley this weekend) and it's going back for the problem to be fixed even if I have only just discovered it several years after the re-chamber. The rifle has been shot about 50 times since then. It's not unsafe but it's the principle int hsi case he charged enough for his work so he can darned well put it right  . I will also be speakign tot he proof house as it had to be re-proofed and they should have picked up on this  .

[mrussel]

I am sorry but why do you need a Gunsmiths opinion on whether a rifle is safe to shoot or not?

If a gun needs fixing beyond the normal replacing of minor bits then it nevers see a smith. Until the other day i had never checked a rifles headspace   didn't see the need it was only that I had to buy some guages for a re-barrel so we could check the headspace. The gunsmith doing the re-barreling don't get much call for 303  . So I brought a set of Button guages from Oakies guages and as I have them I compared the headspace of my various 303 rifles. One a Martini Muscat closes on a the No-go but not on the field. I have shot the rifle and will continue to do so.

One did surprise me as it was a re-chamber job and it too failed the No-Go which it should not do so tomorrow I will be speaking to the gunsmith responsible (he has been away at a big show at Bisley this weekend) and it's going back for the problem to be fixed even if I have only just discovered it several years after the re-chamber. The rifle has been shot about 50 times since then. It's not unsafe but it's the principle int hsi case he charged enough for his work so he can darned well put it right  . I will also be speakign tot he proof house as it had to be re-proofed and they should have picked up on this  .

 I dont own a set of 8mm gages and may not get any more 8mm mausers and I really like my face. Its nice to put food in,I keep my eyes there,and women and children dont run screaming when they see it

[Brithunter]

Oh dear well it seems that SAMMI strikes again. The rifle is set to CIP specs and not SAMMI specs. Why the heck when the 303 cartridge predates SAMMI's inception do they insist or re-inventing the wheel  .

As for this :-

  I dont a set of 8mm gages and may not get any more 8mm mausers and I really like my face. Its nice to put food in,I keep my eyes there,and women and children dont run screaming when they see it

 

I wonder just how many have ever blown up with out the aid of peoples "overloads"  I have seen several guns that had been blown up and every single one was with a handload. The last was Tikka T3 in .308 that the guy forgot to switch powders from when loading his gallery rifle, .44 mag, in which he was using red dot and just preceeded to pour the appropriate rifle charge that should have been something like H4895 but in fact was Red Dot. Split the action wide open shattered the stock. He has a couple of stainless steel splinters still in his forehead but is still shooting and what is more if you didn't know he had blown it up you cannot tell by just meeting him.

The others were 5.56mm cam rifle again wrong powder  the shooter was given some handloads to try! by someone they didn't even know  it blew the top of the reciever off and bent the steep Pecar berlin scope like a bannana  . The third was a nice S&W 1909 revolver which a wrong load blew out the cyclinder wall. I also heard of another shooter injured when part of the action wall of a Remington Rolling block blew sideways and entered his chest. He was two lanes to the right of the shooter who again had used a fast pistol powder in his 45/70 original rolling block. Seems that this particular shooter makes a habit of blowing guns up as in the ambulance he repeated not again over and over. None of his club wanted to go with him as yes this was his third blown up gun through handloading  . sadly he still has all his digits and features, if he had maimed himself them perhaps he would refrain from endangering others. The gentlemen who got the piece of action in his chest was saved by it being a cold day and wearing a heavy coat and a thick woolen jumper they entangled the metal and slowed it and he made a full recovery.

This is over a period of some 20+ years and beign involved with six different shooting clubs and aslo being a Range Conductiong Officer