Jamed barrel

[buckshooter]

I have a 50 caliber Traditions Tracker 209 in-line muzzleloader, which I bought for hundred dollars.  I have had it for three years and it has done everything I wanted it to do.  I use power belts 245 grain and triple seven powder.  In Ohio the muzzleloader season was January 9th through the 12th.

After taking five shots with the gun, I decided to load it again.  I noticed that the barrel rod used to push the bullet down the barrel, was sitting 2 inchs higher than were it was suppose to be.  I decided to push on rod again as hard as I could, and the rod did not move.  Because of this, I was afraid of the barrel blowing up in my face because the bullet and two powders were not down far enough and, also the possibilty of it being jamed.  I went home and took the gun apart.  

The gun is apart to point where I can try to take the rod and shove on the bullet from the trigger end so it can come out the way it came in.  Dad and I both at same time tried to push the bullet out of the barrel, using a rod, with all of our might, we did not budge it at all.  We tried this several times, however it did not move.  

So my question is, How do you get the bullet out of the jamed Gun?  Is their a secret to it?  Any opinion would be greatly appreciated.

please reply

buckshooter

          

[tc scout]

I tend to think your bullet is stuck on the crud ring created by 777 powder.
Probabaly will have to take a solid brass rod and pound it out with a hammer.
Might also try pouring some powder solvent in both ends of the barrel and let it soak over night.
                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                 TC

[hillbill]

if yu dont have a brass rod, try a wood rod or a aluminum arrow. tap tap tap with a hammer.let us know what happens?

[Keith Lewis]

Before you do a lot of damage hammering on the rifle. Try soaking the barrel from the breechplug end after dropping out the powder. If it is T7 then just pour in some fairly hot water and let it soak for a little while and then try to tap the bullet back up the barrel. Make sure you put the muzzle end on something that will not mar the end of the barrel. I am assuming that the bullet is in a sabot. if that is true, try to look at another sabot like the one in the rifle. Make sure that what ever you use to drive the bullet and sabot back up the barrel is small enough that it does not expand the base of the sabot when doing it.

[Bigeasy]

Buckshooter

Most of my experience is with traditional muzzle loaders, but I have shot a bit with modern inlines.  When using an inline, I always use a fiber wad between the powder and the sabot/bullet.  The fiber wad should be lubed with a natural lube like bore butter, or Pyrodex Lube.  This will keep the fouling soft, so you won't experience the problems you are having now.  I have never used 777 powder, but assume it is similar in properties to Pyrodex.  Using BP, or most substitutes without some form of lube is a problem waiting to happen.

Larry

[buckshooter]

I'll soak the barrel as Keith suggested and then try pushing it out with a wooden dowel rod that is smaller than the base of the Power Belt ring.  My biggest concern was causing a spark that would set off an explosion with BOTH ends of the barrel open and my hands in the line of fire - more excitement than I ever want to have!

I may try the bore butter on a wad, but won't that make the pellets wet and, possibly, reduce their ability to "explode" when needed?

I'll get back to you guys with my results.  
Thanks a million!!!

buckshooter

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

Dont use any lube or wads with powerbelts. The plastic skirt is the bullets lube and wad, adding a fiber wad will just cause you to have horrible groups. Ive tried it.

All you are dealing with right now is the crud that that T7 produces. I'd pour some windex or windshield washer fluid down the bore and just let that soak. It will help soften that crud ring to the point where you can bump the bullet out with your ramrod or a dowel.

[Bigeasy]

Dont use any lube or wads with powerbelts. The plastic skirt is the bullets lube and wad, adding a fiber wad will just cause you to have horrible groups. Ive tried it.

I have never used the power belt, specifically, but my experience has found some form of natural lube, besides the plastic of the wad or belt, makes a big difference in keeping fouling at bay, reducing problems like the OP is having now.  A wad lubed with bore butter will not damage the powder charge.  If it did, then lubed wads over powder charges in BP shotguns and cap and ball revolvers, or patched round balls in rifles would not work, but they do.  Accuracy wise, each rifle is different, and yours may very well be more accurate without a lubed wad, you just have to try and see.  An alternative is to swab the barrel every couple shots to reduce fouling build up.

Larry

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

swabbing between shots is the best bet with T7.  That or switch to a cleaner powder that does not leave crud.

[tc scout]

A fiber wad between the powder and sabot defeats the purpose of the cup on the bottom of the sabot.

It is made to flare out and seal the bore when shot.
As others have stated, lube is not necessary, we are not shooting patched round balls or conicals.

If you are going to shoot 777, you will just have to swab between shots.

[buckshooter]

I did manage to unjam a the gun.  Me and my Dad poured warm water down the barrel.  After it soaked for a few minutes my Dad took the rod and just pushed the bullet right out. 

Can a muzzle loader get jamed because of rust in the barrel?  Because my gun has rust throughout the entire barrel.     I have always cleaned my gun after taking five or so shots out of it and I did use rust preventer stuff.     

[DennyRoark]

A few days of sitting after being shot will start the rsut/pitting process.  Get it cleaned good ASAP or sooner.  I use 0000 steel wool-heavily oiled when that happens, clean spotless, and let set heavily oiled until next time.  Make SURE you get all the oil out before shooting again or you'll start all over!  You should be all right this time.

[qajaq59]

Just how serious is a little rust in a barrel? And would spinning that oiled 0000 steel wool with a drill harm anything?

[simonkenton]

Yes the jam could have been caused by rust.
You need to review your cleaning technique, you are ruining your rifle.

[DennyRoark]

Just how serious is a little rust in a barrel? And would spinning that oiled 0000 steel wool with a drill harm anything?

I wouldn't use a drill in a rifle, but I have used the drill/0000 steel wool to get stubborn lead out of a couple of older shotgun barrells.  I don't use it very often.  I just let it follow the grooves with the jag tip.  My wife shot twice on opening day this year, then didn't clean it for 4 days!  She now has 5 or 6 little pits in her like new Sidekick.  Was able to get it polished out with the wool/oil and you can bet she'll clean it next time!  A little rust can be serious as it turns into a lotta rust over time.  Rust is iron oxide.  A molecule of oxygen attaches to a molecules of iron.  Each time you remove a molcule of iron oxide, you leave a "hole" where the iron used to be.  You can loose a "chunk" out of a land pretty fast, especially if it is a shallow groove, like button cut rifling.  Over the last several years, with the advent of the white cleaners like T/C #13, the last thing I do while shooting at the range is run a coulpe of patches thru the barrel with the cleaner and then dry patch.  Fully clean it as soon as I walk in the door.  Only takes an extra minute!

[Redhawk1]

Can a muzzle loader get jamed because of rust in the barrel?  Because my gun has rust throughout the entire barrel.     I have always cleaned my gun after taking five or so shots out of it and I did use rust preventer stuff.     

Yes it can.

Also if you cleaned you gun right, you would not get any rust in the barrel. I always clean my gun right after I shoot it. I run Windex with vinegar on patches down the barrel, followed by a copper brush, followed by patches until they come out clean. Then I run a patch with break free, followed by a patch with bore butter. I never get rust in my barrels.

[qajaq59]

I clean mine too. But this came from someone that hadn't used it in years, so it looks like it was "rode hard and put away wet."

[ourway77]

Use a tight fitting patch on your jag and JB's bore cleaner, push from muzzle to breech and vise versa keep doing till it comes clean. It will take awhile. You will never completly restore it to original depending on just how long it went dirty and corroded the barrel. Every powder boast non corrosive but that is not true, even BH-209 if left uncleaan moisture will collect in the bore causing rapid rust. Best bet is to clean as directed for your rifle ASAP. Egen if you clean Half a%% at night and do a VG cleaning in the morning. Lou

[alsaqr]

I run Windex with vinegar on patches down the barrel, followed by a copper brush, followed by patches until they come out clean.

+1
Works very well for me too.  Windex with vinegar is also the quickest and best way to clean breech plugs.  Just spray it on, wait a few seconds and brush the crud off with an old toothbrush.  The acid in the vinegar attacks the crud, which is a base, and just eats it up.  Sometimes you can see it fizz.   

[luckydawg13]

try soap & water let soke cant hert