rabbit raising questions

[hillbill]

im on the verge of raising sum rabbits for meat.but a couple questions i have are, what is the best size to build your cages? and how do you water the rabbits in the winter? i want them to have free acess to water but it gets very cold here a couple months a year and wonder how to keep their water supply from freezing short of a heated building.thanks guys!

[Couger]

Look up an author who's one of the foremost rabbit raising eggspurts in the USA,  Bob Bennet.

Bennet is published by Storey Publications (or Books).  Get familiar with his books or articles.

He's from Connecticutt, Hew Hampshire or one of those eastern states, and has been raising rabbits since he was a boy.

Bennet recommends nothing but ALL METAL cages, 16-18 inches high, made out of hog wire.

General rule of thumb is a square foot of space fpr every ppound of body weight of the rabbit.

For meat rabbits Bennet recommends "white" varieties like the New Zealand White, Florida White or "California" (with its black tipped paws and schnoz.

Two tips I'll pass along (I've not been able to raise rabbits yet;  1).  Make their cages and housing out of ALL METAL because of the amount of urine the rabbits produce, and wooden structures can't handle that fact!  Don't ignore this,

2).  Invest (buy your own) in "white rabbits!"  DO NOT ALLOW ANYONE TO GIVE YOU THEIR LEFTOVER AND FAILED RABBITS!!

Everyboday I know who has "tried" to raise rabbits for meat who didn't follow bennet's advice by getting other than white-rabbits, or didn't buy (however expensive) their own "breeder-meat-rabbits" (and took someone's "leftovers") has FAILED!! 

This includes my sister and my neice who was in 4-H,
2 or 3 best friends,
and another 3 or 4 neighbors, aquaintences, or people I've known from church. 

I have yet to meet someone who successfully raises rabbits for the table!

To get started you need two does and two bucks.  Ideally a proven doe thats already bred and raised a litter is good,  along with a "bred" buck, and another young female (unrelated to the first) to "backup" the first doe and help expand your herd.  The 2nd buck is for backup too, and eventual replacement.  Any breeding stock that doesn't produce needs to be slaughtered or gotten rid of.

Two rules Bennet embraces are that NONE of his rabbits are "pets" and he will NOT help anyone else with "their pets!"

All to avoid "complications!" 

[hillbill]

well thank you couger! you already saved me from committing a mistake. i was going to build some cages today with wood frames. i will change my plans to include metal only and follow your advice on size. i have some books comeing and really wont do anything untill im well read on the subject.

[pastorp]

Bill, I raised rabbits as a kid. We did eat them as well, but everything we raised eventually was eaten. I like fried rabbit but it's a lean meat and you can starve to death eating rabbit alone. You need some fat to go with it. And greens from a garden..    Rabbits were easy to raise for me. Phesants on the other hand were not. They kept pecking each other to death.

Regards,

[Couger]

To raise meat rabbits it isn't absolutely imperative that the varieties be "white" (there are New Zealand Reds for example), but like fowl (that are basically white and have white or pink or yellow skin, they dress out better and look more appealing to the "chef" when the frathers - or fur - isn't black or dark, esp if a few pinfeathers are missed!)

Also by getting specialized meat brooding/breeding stock I believe helps one adopt a higher level of discipline and exactness trying to raise "food animals!"  Might appear a little more sterile as well, but by seeking "breeding stock" by persuing a specific breed automatically helps guarentee that you will be getting "quality" stock.

And besides raising rabbits for meat and not pets, rabbits can be raised for their fur, to be used as laboratory animals, for their droppings (highly sought), and cages or similar equipment can be made and marketed as well.

In addition to making all cages METAL, 16 to 18 inches high, making them no deeper (wider) from any doors than 24in, will help in reaching the rabbits if they need to caught and extracted from the cage!

Typically a broody doe's (New Zealand White) cage might be 18inches high, 24inches deep (wide) and 30 to 36inches LONG!  (for an 8 to 10ish pound doe New Zealnd White, and her littler before its weaned).  A buck should weigh 5-6-7- pounds and live alone in a 24 X 24inches 16 to 18inches HIGH.

Bob Bennett has written 6 rabbit raising books, altho only ONE BOOK was listed on the Storey Publishing site last night (after I made my post above). 

Also ..... FEEDING rabbits ..... They can eat many kinds of vegetation as long as its clean and free from pesticides, and contrary to any buggs Bunny cartoons, DO NOT FEED RABBITS ANY CABBAGE or cabbage-related vegies including like broccoli, califlower or brussel sprouts and other varieties!

In other words, rabbits can be fed from MOST of your kitchen and garden scraps / trimmings, and even a few grass or clover clippings (if its clean!).

If a smaller, more compact rabbit is sought the Florida White serves that purpose well, or Bennett recommends breeding a NZW doe with a Florida White buck, but not visa versa!

[Couger]

Interesting comments PastorP, about the fee-azz-ants!  I've heard of that problem before happening frequently in domestic pheasants (and chickens)  when their beaks aren't cut (and cauterized).  But in the last few days your post is about the third comment I've read on the subject.

Apparently "pecking" is a frequent problem with domesticated fowl.  One girlfriend of mine (her mother actually) once had a new flock of brown-egg chickens the dad didn't debeak.  Pecking turned into cannibalism that was so bad we first thought weasels or vermine were doing it!  Six or seven hens died (out of 25, and were badly eaten from the azz-end) before were figured it out!

Glad I wasn't responsible for that one!  The dad was a farmer, but beggars me how he missed that one before it was too late (loosing 1/4th of the flock).

[BIG Dog454]

I used to raise rabbits for a lab,  had a standing order of 100 rabbits per week.  for meat or lab  the best breed is New Zeland giants or california, they grow fast and convert feed to meat quickly.  Had all wire cages, 1/2 inch hardware cloth, that I made myself, used self feed hoppers and had a water system that was self feeding with heat wire installed.  The waters were similar to what they use in hog lots.  For the does that were due, we would put them in drop bottom cages that would hold a box for the young, that way if the young crawled out of their box they would fall back into it and not freeze.  Hope that this helps.  If you have any questions I hope that I can help.
BD

[mannyrock]

   We raised white rabbits for 10 years when I was a kid.  Here are some pointers:

      1.   Rabbits can take the cold very very well, but only if they are kept totally dry, and out of the wind, and have a box that they can go into with a little straw, or even a heavy cotton towel.

      2.   Do not face the front of your cages due south.  If the sun pours in there during the summer, and the rabbits can't get out of the sun, then they will very quickly die of heat stroke.  Always make sure that at least half of their cage space is shaded at all times.

      3.   We use to go out to feed and water the rabbits in the morning during the winter.   We carried out plastic milk jugs, full of extremely hot tap water.   Yes, the water in their bowls was frozen.  So, we would pour a little hot water on top, then turn the bowl over and slam it down.  The frozen water would fall out in one chunk.  Then, we would refill the bowl with the hot water.  It would stay unfrozen for a couple of hours, and the rabbits would drink it during this period with no problem. 

       4.    We mostly raised the white New Zeland rabbits.  We also had a few of the black and white Dutch rabbits.  But, we found out that the males were extremely mean, and if they were frustrated during a mating time, they would get viscious.  One of them bit down hard on the back of my little brother's hand when he was putting a water bowl into the cage, and shook back and forth like a shark, tearing the back of my brother's hand open.  It took 8 stiches to close it up, and it left a ragged scar.

        5  We found out that if a female rabbit killed one or more of her first litter (they actually chew them to death), then she is very likely to repeat it for future litters and aren't worth breeding.  On the other hand, we had a few females that had as many as 10 litters, and never harmed a single one.  You have to study your rabbits, and look for the large and friendly ones.

         6.   Always have a salt lick in the cage.

        7.  If you have baby rabbits (very young) in the cage, then they can't be on wire.  Racoons will crawl up underneath the cage, and grab their legs through the wire, and actually pull them off or eat them off. This is a very very horrible scene, so make sure it doesn't happen.   When we had baby rabbits in the cage, we always set small steel traps underneath the cage at night, with some straw sprinkled on them.  We caught  racoons and bobcats.   

[hillbill]

wow guys! lots of good info here from yuall.im very thankfull for all the advice. im getting my cages built and gathering info. next step is to find a good source for my brood rabbits. im gonna try to get them early in the spring.i should have a nice place built for them by then.

[Couger]

Bennett in whatever book it is he wrote, discusses how to house the all metal cages so they are sheltered and facing the right direction once they're located where you want them.

He also discusses how to keep them clean, how to plan for the way the droppings fall and urine, etc.

He bought angle-steel from hardware stores to make whatever "racks" he used in his shelter (covered with tarps) to suspend the cages from (you cannot put them on the ground, nor stack them on one another!  The cages need to be suspended).

Check out eBay and amazon for his books too.

[FourBee]

Galvanized wire for cages.  Don't make them so deep that you cannot reach the nest boxes from the doorway.  Make the doors large enough you can easily handle your rabbits. 
Build your nest boxes where you can easily observe the young. 
They multiply fast, so don't just have breeder cages, build some for those coming off the nests.
 Got a shed ?  hang those cages from the ceiling. Better yet on cables that can hoist them to any desired level for cleaning out from under them.   They pee alot, and that moist feces draws maggots, so keep it clean.  Rabbit droppings with spilled feed makes excellent redworm beds.  If you can get a market for them it'll make a little side income from all that manure.
ps. It's always good to keep records of breeding does soes not to be caught by surprise.

[Bugflipper]

For the water I have done 2 different things. I used to buy the cheapest light bulb receptacles and wire a series of cages together to one switch. The light bulb would go at the bottom corner of the waterer and be enough heat to keep them thawed with a 60 watt bulb each. I ran into some heat lamp reflectors for a dollar a piece and bought up a lifetime supply. Now I just run a 15 watt bulb the same way. In winter I also put plastic wrap around the sides to knock down the wind. That is not for the water since it is on the outside. They don't really need it, I just figure I wouldn't want to be out there stuck in the cold with no protection.

Years ago we would paint the waterers black to absorb the sunlight. They were put on the South side to thaw with the low sun of winter. In the summer it also cut down on algae. Of coarse during a really cold snap they would not thaw so we would take them in and boil them then fill with hot tap water and put them back out. They would not freeze back until well after dark.

[hillbill]

ive looked at a lot of options for the frozen water thing. a guy on yutube had twice the wateres he needed and just put the frozen ones in a insulated garbage can with a 100 watt bulb to thaw them and then swapped them out. sounds like the cheapest route ive seen.what yu guys think?

[Bugflipper]

Sounds like a good plan. Honestly with twice as many I would just bring them in and put the frozen ones in the sink. And fill up the empty ones to put out. But then again the wife would probably be upset with a perpetual sink full of waterers all winter. So your way is probably better.

[rzwieg]

One very good reason to use all wire cages is ear canker. Dogs get the same condition. It was a recurring problem with rabbits we had in wood and wire hutches. I think the mites stayed in the wood until winter and needed a nice warm place (a bunnies ear).

They also like to chew on the wood and escape. Wire is low maintenance.

[LunaticFringeInc]

Plus one to the "all metal" cages.  I use stackable ones from Bass I believe it is.  Im pressed for space and this was by far my best option for a compact operation.  Mine are 30 x 24 which seems to be just fine.

The New Zealands are a great breed as are a few others.  However in the interest of effcientcy and maximizing space I went with Florida Whites.  They are a little smaller than the typical meat breeds but due to their smaller/lighter bone structure they dress out with about the same amount of meat weight wise as the larger meat breeds do.  This allows me to use less feed, smaller cages and still get the meat I needed.  This breed is a little harder to cpome by but I think the benefit out weights the effort.

As for keeping the water bottles from freezing, I used glass bottles and wired some 15 watt aquarium light bulbs in series so that they rest on the water bottle top.  This kept them from freezing.  Of course I live in North Texas where it doesnt get all that cold compared to other areas.  The heat is more of a issue raising rabbits than the cold provided they have drinking water available.

As far as feeding goes....  I feed my rabbits mainly a pellet ration with plenty of hay for the most part.  While you can feed them some scrape greens from the garden or table, its best that you not feed them too much too often as this can really throw a rabbits digesting system off center and result in the runs instead of the pellets that just drop into the pan.  Not good for the rabbit and definitely not good for you since your the one who gets to clean it up!

[hillbill]

so far ive got 3 young rabbits about 2.5 months old.2 does and a buck that are all new zealand x california. they are doing good but will be awhile before they are old enough to breed. ive learned a lot from yuall and the other research ive done and hope to make a sucess out of this project. goin to add on to my rabbit shed today to make room for more cages! ive aslo done quite a bit of research on natural feeding. my rabbits are doing well on a mix of pellets, wheat grass, turnip greens and apple twigs.

[Couger]

Good for you HB.  We have "covenants" where I live, or I'd have some rabbits or small animals too.

Your rabbits won't mature as quickly as 'coturnix quail,' but your wait shouldn't be too long, should it?

[FourBee]

Good for you HB.  We have "covenants" where I live, or I'd have some rabbits or small animals too.

Your rabbits won't mature as quickly as 'coturnix quail,' but your wait shouldn't be too long, should it?

Couger; your quail statement made me look 'em up.
They're called Japanese Jumbo Quail.  They are more gentle than chickens.   They hatch in 16-17 days, and mature in 6 weeks.   May lay up to 200 eggs per year.  Cost for 50 eggs is $45.   Very interesting.....

[hillbill]

Good for you HB.  We have "covenants" where I live, or I'd have some rabbits or small animals too.

Your rabbits won't mature as quickly as 'coturnix quail,' but your wait shouldn't be too long, should it?

i wanted something that would raise their own young. could eat some of the available foods i can grow.and not take up much room.rabbits seemed to fit the bill.however im sure there is a learning curve as with anything else.i may get some chikens or quail eventually but dont have a lot of time to mess with them.as of now i get plenty of eggs from my brother who has chickens so im hopeing the rabbits will provide the meat!

[Bugflipper]

On the quail xld1 is another name for the xl jumbo brown coturnix. One word of caution is you want them down wind from the house. They have a very high ammonia rate in their droppings. If it bothers you, you can put lyme down on top of it to kill the smell. They are egg laying machines though. At about half the size, the texas a&m coturnix gives the same size egg and eats quite a bit less. But you have an 8 oz bird instead of a pound. They are pretty tame. Usually wont pick one another like bobwhites can do. They can also be raised on a cheaper chicken type starter feed instead of a high protein gamebird starter feed. The eggs don't taste any different than chicken. Just takes about 4 for 1. They are the easiest gamebird to raise and would be a good start for a fellow thinking of getting into gamebirds. They fight less than tame chickens. They are also a very good way to learn how to use an incubator properly since their maturity rate is so quick.

[mannyrock]

    Raisng any kind of quail, chicken or poultry is a tremendous amount of time and disgusting work.  (Been there.)  Rabbits are different.

     The good thing about rabbits is that once you have the cages, water, boxes etc. properly set up, they take very little time to care for.  We I was a kid, we had about 20 rabbits at a time, and it only took about 20 minutes per day to feed and water all of them.

     

[hillbill]

my oldest doe. 4 months when bred, has had a litter of 9 and they all still alive and gettin fur on them.she has really turned out to be a awesum momma.im hopeing im looking at several delicous rabbit dinners!its really hot here but they appear to be doing good.i have them on a natural diet of clover, turnip greens, grass and hay.