Explain 30-30 IMP

[bayrunner]

Would someone please expain this cal. to me, don't quit understand it. How is it formed ,and how does it compare to 30-30, and is it for reloaders only, and can you buy factory ammo.  THANKS  BAYRUNNER

[Whodaheck99]

30-30 Improve does provides a additional 200-300 FPS. The cases are fire-formed cases. And you do have to hand load them.

[Crayfish]

#99 is correct.  When people talk about 30-30 IMP, they are typically talking about the "30-30 Ackley Improved" cartridge.  This cartridge has less body taper and a steeper shoulder to increase the powder capacity within the 30-30 brass.  The neck is the same length and the case length is the same so that factory rounds can be fired in an "improved" chamber and the brass then becomes fireformed to the "improved" version.  Then it must be handloaded in order to take advantage of the added case capacity and thus greater velocity potential.  Firing factory rounds thru and improved chamber WILL NOT give you the velocity increase.

... Crayfish

[bayrunner]

Hi Crayfish___ You mean you can fire a reg. 30-30 round in an IMP.(arkley) barrel ,and that blows out brass then your ready to reload to IMP(ARKLEY). stats.THANKS

[bayrunner]

Oh _____one more thing how would the 30-30 arkley in 10inch barrel stand up to7- 30 waters or 357 Herrett in 10 inch tubes THANKS

[Crayfish]

Bayrunner - Yes, that's correct .... you can fire factory ammo and the case will come out as fireformed Ackley improved!

I would guess that the 7-30Waters and 30-30AI are very similiar in performance with similiar bullet weights, since the 7-30 uses what is basically just an improved 30-30 case.  The 30-30AI will probably have a slight velocity edge on the 7-30 with heavier bullets.  Both of these will beat the 357Herret by a wide margin as far as velocity is concerned, but the 357H will shoot much heavier bullets.  

The 7-30W and 30-30AI would be better suited for 14" barrels (due to their powder capacities) and the 357Herret was designed around a 10" barrel.   All of these could be shot in a 10" barrel and will work just fine, though.  You just won't get as much velocity as you would with a 14" barrel.

I don't own any of these calibers, by the way, just relaying what I know ...  not what I've experienced!!

... Crayfish

[Darrell Davis]

Hello Bayrunner, If your still out there, a bit of additional info that may help you in the future is the difference between Improved and Wildcat rounds.

Those folk who have already replied to your Improved question are correct. A standard factory round (or reload) can be fired in a properly chambered "improved" chamber and out comes an IMPROVED CASE.

The reason this is possible is because a properly cut chamber will allow a standard round to head space at the point where the neck meets the shoulder.  In this way, the round is held in the correct position in relation to the breach face and firing pin, preventing a head space problem and allowing the firing pin to strike the primer with the needed amount of force.

If the chamber had been cut too deep, a head space problem could develop if the reloading dies were not properly set for that chamber. Also, the round might not even fire as the firing pin may simply push the loaded round ahead of it without setting the primer off.

If you ever have a gunsmith cut you an improved chamber, ask him/her to cut it just deep enough that you will get a slight "crush" fit when the action is closed on a standard factory round or new brass.

With a "wildcat," you are dealing with a case which will require some type of preparation before it can be fired. A standard round can't (normaly) be  fired in in the wildcat chamber, although I have heard of it being done in wildcating the 30/06 to the 30 Gibbs. It is not recomended and there are BETTER ways.

If you have questions about forming wildcat cases, I am sure there are a bunch of us that can supply volumns of info. :roll:  :grin:

[Bug]

And this is subjective. You mention a 10" barrel. I don't think you will gain anything with an "improved" case, in a 10" barrel, except the ability to burn 4-5gr more powder to get the same velocity, and greatly enhanced muzzle flash/blast. You really need more barrel than 10" to get any advantage from the .30-30 Ackley Improved cartridge, over the standard .30-30. P.O. Ackley saw his improved case as a way to get higher velocities, with decreased backthrust, in lever-action rifles. As far as that goes, some would argue that the standard .30-30 has too much capacity for 10" barrels. Hence the introduction of the .30 Herrett - Same (or more?) velocity in a 10" barrel, using less powder. It's just more efficient. One thing I've never understood, is the  loading manuals will generally give a higher max velocity to the .30 Herrett than the .30-30. My common sense tells me that the .30-30 should achieve equal velocities, with a common bullet & barrel length, albeit with more of the same powder, as the .30 Herrett. What'chall thank?,,,,,,,Bug.

[bayrunner]

Hey Guys ____ Thanks for the insightful info. it does shed a brighter light on the subject,one more  thing about the 7-30 and 30-30 IMP. comparison everything being equal(bullets of equal densityused)wouldn't the 7mm.cal. be more efficient than 30 cal. as far as trajectoy and energy(for hunting deer) out of an 11 inch barrel. THANKS BAYRUNNER

[Bug]

Well, Maybe. But, there is a slight trade-off between the 7mm's slightly higher BC & SD, and the .30's slightly higher initial velocity (case, powder & bullet weights being similar). I don't think there will ever be enough difference - we're talking handguns, here - to be of significance. Just go with whatever floats your boat, and never look back,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Bug.

[cbagman]

And this is subjective. You mention a 10" barrel. I don't think you will gain anything with an "improved" case, in a 10" barrel, except the ability to burn 4-5gr more powder to get the same velocity, and greatly enhanced muzzle flash/blast. You really need more barrel than 10" to get any advantage from the .30-30 Ackley Improved cartridge, over the standard .30-30. P.O. Ackley saw his improved case as a way to get higher velocities, with decreased backthrust, in lever-action rifles. As far as that goes, some would argue that the standard .30-30 has too much capacity for 10" barrels. Hence the introduction of the .30 Herrett - Same (or more?) velocity in a 10" barrel, using less powder. It's just more efficient. One thing I've never understood, is the  loading manuals will generally give a higher max velocity to the .30 Herrett than the .30-30. My common sense tells me that the .30-30 should achieve equal velocities, with a common bullet & barrel length, albeit with more of the same powder, as the .30 Herrett. What'chall thank?,,,,,,,Bug.

I shoot a 12 in .30 Herrett  and I think the shorter case is more efficient. I easily get 2150 FPS in a 12 inch T/C barrel with close to 1 inch groups at 100 yrd using any 125 grain spitzer pushed by 23.8 grains of IMR 4227.. I once shot a 10 inch .30-.30 Contender and immediately got rid of the barrel. Too loud!!
Cbagman

[kciH]

The 30-30 AI would be a wast of time in anything but 14-15" barrel.  The 30 Herret, against all reason, outperforms a 30-30 which has greater case capacity in  the 10-12" barrels.  If you decided to get one in a longer barrel, the advantages would only be seen with the heaviest .30 bullets, which probably wouln't be ideal for hunting.

As Cbagman said, the 30-30 in a 10" is VERY LOUD.  It also throws a fireball of powder burining outside the barrel that is about 4-5 feet in length.  Probably more of a fire hazard than a good choice for a pistol round.