.45-70 trapdoor loads and Mythbusters.

[philthygeezer]

I'm assuming that the standard .45-70, 405-grain bullet at 1330 fps is the trapdoor load (remington core-lokt 21461 300gr or 29473 405 gr).

Given the Mythbusters episode 34:

All supersonic bullets (up to .50-caliber) disintegrated in less than 3 feet (90 cm) of water, but slower velocity bullets, like pistol rounds, need up to 8 feet (2.4 metres) of water to slow to non-lethal speeds. Shotgun slugs require even more depth (the exact depth couldn’t be determined because their one test broke the rig). However, as most water-bound shots are fired from an angle, less actual depth is needed to create the necessary separation.

http://mythbustersresults.com/episode34

http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2005/07/mythbusters_bulletproof_water.html

This gives me pause for thought. Could heavier bullets at 1300 fps be more lethal than the higher velocity .30-06s and other such rifles at close range?  Does the same penetration behavior occur in meat and bone?

[efremtags]

penetration and lethality are not the same. you can get deep penetration without a good wound channel.

Point in fact, a 50BMG will split a human in half at 500 yards,  45-70 @ 1000fps will not.

[philthygeezer]

penetration and lethality are not the same. you can get deep penetration without a good wound channel.

Point in fact, a 50BMG will split a human in half at 500 yards,  45-70 @ 1000fps will not.

What about for thick-skinned, potentially-dangerous game?  If faster rounds tend to blow up instead of going through bone etc, wouldn't a slow-moving 12 gauge or 45/70 trapdoor load make more sense than a .300 Win Mag at point blank?

[swampthing]

Most dangerous game ammo is loaded to sub 2800fps. 500g++ slugs with thick copper and/or zinc alloys over lead at around 2500 fps will make quite a "splash" on a chest hit. Look back at the show and note when the slug hits the water... now imagine that the "pool" is the inside of a Buffalo's chest... you won't see much of the splash because the heavy ribs, thick thick, heavy, fiberous hide, and don't forget the many inches of muscle, that will contain that splash none the less.  Also 3' of penetration is 36" not a lot of dangerous have game much over 3 feet of chest width, save huge huge Rhino/Hippo and Elephant, also there vitals don't "start" 3feet in. Once you start going over 2800fps.... IMPACT velocity.....   you start to splash poor construced bullets... meaning they don't go deep... exactally why when you shoot 3 feet away from the surface of water the bullets don't go real deep...  is the reason why I like loads that are 2600fps or less... when a pig jumps on me and starts to hurt me I don't want my bullet/s to splash!   

[torpedoman]

mythbusters need careful watching. they vary from some brilliant solutions to absolute stupidity. they tested the "myth" of shotguns exploding and declared it busted because no matter how much they plugged the barrel of their semi autos they could not get the barrel to come apart.  I have 2 good friends that will question their findings.

[rdmallory]

They revisited the shot gun with plugged barrel myth. It was confirmed with older shotguns. The first test was done with new models.

Doug