Author Topic: First bolt gun question  (Read 838 times)

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Offline Diesel40

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First bolt gun question
« on: January 27, 2010, 09:44:12 AM »
I am going to get a bolt gun but haven’t narrowed down if I want a savage or a Remington 700.  It will be in 308.  I have had a 243 for about 4 or 5 years now and have shot 22 since I was about 10.  The 243 is a H&R and is used for coyote hunting.  The 308 will be mostly for target shooting and hopefully my brother and I will be going on an elk trip in a few year I would like to use it for that also. My main goal is to get into long range competition one day so I would like a gun that I can build on down the road.  I know from all the research that I have done that both of these are good guns to start with.   Mostly I am looking for a good recommendation on what glass I should put on this gun.  Thanks for your help.

Offline Catfish

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Re: First bolt gun question
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2010, 09:50:53 AM »
For a field gun eather will work well. BUT, if are are counting on modifing it definately the Savage. With Savage you can change barrels yourself. You can even change the bolt face if you want to turn it into a .223 or something. If I find a Savage cheap, I buy it no matter what cal. it is.

Offline Diesel40

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Re: First bolt gun question
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2010, 10:22:03 AM »
For a field gun eather will work well. BUT, if are are counting on modifing it definately the Savage. With Savage you can change barrels yourself. You can even change the bolt face if you want to turn it into a .223 or something. If I find a Savage cheap, I buy it no matter what cal. it is.

That sounds promising. 

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: First bolt gun question
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2010, 10:59:18 AM »
You sound like a friend of mine when I was in College.
He too wanted a 308 for big game.  He picked 308 for a couple of reasons but one was it was the prefered 1,000 yard round and the military snipers were using it.  87-92 I forget what year he got it.
We he purchased a hunting rifle and then wanted to scope it with a target scope. (they did not have the tactical rifles back then and the 700 V was about all you could get in that class and pretty heavy for a hunting rifle)
So we go out to my family's farm in NC where a 1,000 yard shot was possible and after sighting in the rifle at 100 yards then shooting at 200, and 500.  He was not happy with his groups at 500 yards.  He expected the same ragged hole he had at 100 yards.  With factory ammo the difference in powder, primers, projectile weight, and the internal case all vary a little that will change you velocity and there fore change you down range impact.  While the scope was a little too big for the hunting rifle it was a good hunting rifle and he took a few deer with it.  But he was never happy with that rifle or the three or four that followed it.  Again these were hunting rifles and not target or varmint rifles set up for long range shooting.  
I compare a lot of things to Pick up trucks.
So bare with me on this one.
A pick up is great and can do a lot.  But if you are looking to haul big rocks it may be best to get a Dump truck.
The dump truck is specifly designed for one task- hauling haevy stuff.  the pick up is a jack of all trades and can do lots of things.
A general purpose hunting rifle is a pick up.  It can do most of what you ask but is not exactly right for the specific job at hand.
And the reverse.  the Target / tactical/ varmint rifle is great for these tasks but is either too heavy, or to bulky to have as a hunting rifle.
I like 308 and have two.  A ruger 77 with iron sights and a Rem 700 V that wears a 3-9X50 scope.  Both work for me in what and how I hunt.  But the 700 V is too heavy and the 50MM optic is too big for long range hunting or horse back.  The 77 light and is great for in the woods and the fields of NC or CA but the open sights limit me for longer shots for pigs and deer in open areas.  i veiw the rifles in my gun locker as gold clubs and I would not use a driver to put.  
Get a good hunting rifle put good glass on it 3-9X38 or 40.  i would stay away from adjustable objectives. and sight it in for 200 yards and use it as a hunting rifle.  As you want to get into the long range shooting use the hunting rifle to see if you like it.  Others will come over and let you shoot thier rigs.  Trust me. then deside on what you want as a 1,000 yard rifle.

Offline Zachary

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Re: First bolt gun question
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2010, 11:50:24 AM »
  Mostly I am looking for a good recommendation on what glass I should put on this gun.

There really is no 1 scope that is for both target hunting and Elk hunting, not per se at least.  You have a .308.  The question is, at what range do you want to target shoot?  If it is up to 300 yards, then a scope with a max magnification of 12x is fine.  It seems that the older that I get, the more it seems that the norm moves towards higher magnification.  Nothing necessarily wrong with that, as long as you have a good low magnification number.  Scopes used to have 3x power settings - meanng 3x-9x.  Then, scopes had 4x power settings - meaning 4x-16x.  Now we have some scopes with 5x power settings - meaning 5x-15x.  For Elk hunting, if you are going to hunt in areas were shots will be close (75 yards and under), you will be handicapped if your scope is at 10x.  Not necessarily true if the opposite is the situation - i.e. if an elk is 300 yards away, you can still use a scope set at, say, 4x or so.  That said, I would imagine that a 3x-9x scope on the lower magnification range is good, and possibly up to 4x-16x.  My favorite 4x-16x (both in 40mm and 50mm objectives) is the Elite 4200, but while such a scope is fine at the bench, it's kinda heavy and you don't want to carry it in the field while hiking the mountains for elk.


It also all depends on how much money you want to spend.  On the lower price range (but still good scopes) I recommend the Bushnell Elite 3200 and Nikon Buckmaster. If you can spend a little bit more, go to the Elite 4200 or Nikon Monarch.

Offline Coyote Hunter

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Re: First bolt gun question
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2010, 05:10:12 PM »
Diesel –

A good target rifle will be too heavy for elk hunting unless you are young, strong of back and somewhat retarded.

That said, you can do a lot with a .308 Win.  Mount a Burris 4.5-14x w/ Ballistic Plex reticle on it, as I did mine, and you can shoot clay pigeons out to 400, maybe further depending on the rifle and load.  My .308 W is a sporter-weight Remington M700 BDL made in 1975 and the 400-yard clays are my favorite target.  I also shoot it out to 600 yards at larger targets. Picked the rifle up used in late 2005.

As far as elk, the .308 is a good choice out to about 400 yards depending on the load.  A .30-06 can get you another 100 yards or so.  Some folks will tell you a 3-9x is better for elk hunting than a 4.5-14x.  I use several of both but tend to keep the 3-9x scopes set on 4.5x anyway.  I really appreciate the 14x when shooting small targets at long range.

As far as scopes I prefer a 42-44mm objective over the 50mm objectives.   For my purposes the 50’s are too large and cumbersome when hunting.  Also, some sort of drop compensation is built into all the scopes I’ve bought lately – mostly the Burris Fullfield II’s with Ballistic Plex reticle but also one with mil dots.

Good luck.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline tdn

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Re: First bolt gun question
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2010, 06:12:02 PM »
I would tend to agree with mcwoodduck, on the gun safe/golf bag idea.
I also own two .308 rifles - one with an 18.5" barrel and open (ghost ring) sights for the closer stuff and one with a 22" barrel with a Bushnell 3200 3-9x40 for all around.   If general big game hunting (especially elk) is on the menu, as well as target shooting, it sounds like you'll be ending up with 2 rifles (or more ;D ) soon enough if you get serious about either, or both sports.  But even if you are going to stick with one rifle for now, it would be tough to beat a Rem. 700 with a good 3-9x scope for the time being.

Offline Diesel40

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Re: First bolt gun question
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2010, 02:19:33 AM »
As I stated guys I am looking for a target gun, not really a hunting gun.  I hope to go on an elk trip not sure when that will happen.  I live in IL. and about the only thing you can shoot with a rifle is varments.  I got a rifle for the varments.  Thanks for your help though.

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: First bolt gun question
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2010, 05:55:06 AM »
Sorry,
We all wish there was just one rifle to do everything from brush to 1,000 yard compitition.
and until someone perfect the laser it will remain so.   ;)
And you can not go wrong with a M700 and a 3-9X40 scope. 
If you are looking for something else to shoot Varmints with what about 223?
I have a M700 SPS in the kevlar stock topped with a 6-24X42 Weaver with a 6" sun shade that I can easily shoot the caps off of soda bottles at 200 yards with.  It will turn a baking potato into a white ball 15 feet round,
Ammo can be cheap and my M700 tends to shoot all the commercial 223 well.  But the same would go for the Savage 110.
But the same gun can be had in 243 and will give you the ability to just have one load.  The 243 can be used for Deer.
Good luck.

Offline Catfish

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Re: First bolt gun question
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2010, 09:49:18 AM »
If the scope will be strickly for target 24X and up. I personally only buy Luepolds and have picked up 4 - 24X Leupolds at gun shows for $ 400 ea. A 6 1/2 x 20 would also be real nice or an 8 1/2 x 25 LR if you ever want to use it for a long range coyote gun.