Author Topic: Practice (Read 1192 times)

mcwoodduck · « **on:** November 04, 2009, 07:42:18 AM »

When you practice with your handgun.
What do you do?
Do you consider a shooting match like an IDPA match as practice?

GH1 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 04, 2009, 09:13:25 AM »

Personally I consider IDPA to be an excellant form of training, I wish I could do it more. I count range time as practice as well. When I can do neither I do dry fire drills, or sometims I work on drawing & presntation, with no firing involved at all.
GH1

Savage · « **Reply #2 on:** November 04, 2009, 09:37:52 AM »

IDPA is a good way to improve your gun handling skills. It's a great way to have fun while you're doing it! Just have to remember it's a game. It is no substitute for training.
I am fortunate enough to belong to two excellent clubs. One with all sorts of props and trick targets at my disposal. On one of my rare practice days at the range, I try to concentrate on one or two skill sets for the majority of my range time. I might run thru a couple of plate racks at full speed at the end of the session. I enjoy shooting, but try to make every shot fired as good as I can. I don't want to get sloppy and reinforce bad habits.
Savage

Noreaster · « **Reply #3 on:** November 04, 2009, 10:02:01 AM »

Just about any trigger time is good. I've shot IDPA and it reinforces some bad habits, but it aint bad either. Self defense is much different than target shooting. I'm a strong advocate of point/instinctive shooting, but sights have a place also. My gun club is a great place to target shoot and sight in firearms, but doesn't lend itself to good self defense shooting. Consider yourself at the range target shooting, then consider youself at the ATM, opening your car door, going through your house in the dark... and having to use your firearm. Self defense is generally seven paces and less, and one handed. How many rooms in your house are more than 21 feet long. How many people get robbed at more than an arms length away. If you have to use a firearm for self defense you may have a flashlight in your other hand, car keys, wallet, debit card, phone with 91 dialed, around your kids or wife/husband, opening a door, turning on a light...

Here's a great drill. Put electrical tape over both sights. Holster the gun (this can be difficult with tape,) stand in front of a human type target at five yards. Put your none dominate hand up in a stop motion. Draw your firearm and shoot at the point of the target your looking at. Draw and fire draw and fire. Square yourself to the target, forget the weaver stance (we have eyes facing forward, we are predators, we face our threats and crouch slightly,) you will find yourself hitting what your looking at. My 2 cents.

Savage · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2009, 12:55:55 PM »

Put your none dominate hand up in a stop motion.

I would strongly advise against this! Excellent way to shoot yourself. In the IDPA nationals held at CASA range in Arkansas, (2001 or 2002) a competitor did just that. One of the stages had a charging target that required the competitor to engage the target while backing down a hall way. The guy didn't move fast enough to get out of the way. He threw his non dominate hand up to stop the target and put a hole through it. Just about all trainers now teach bringing the non shooting hand back to the center of the chest or behind the head when shooting strong hand only at contact distances or from retention.
Point shooting has it's place, and just about all competitors use it when engaging close targets. A good example of that would be the Steel Challenge. On the "Smoke & Hope" stage almost everyone I shoot with point shoots the first 4 plates. It slows down the first shot too much to use the sights. Most anyone can hit a man size target using "Focal Point" sighting inside 10 yds with a little practice. Longer unrushed shots are a great time to use the sights. Both sighted and unsighted shooting should be practiced after getting the basics down. I need to practice both!!
Savage

Noreaster · « **Reply #5 on:** November 04, 2009, 01:00:35 PM »

Good point savage. I'm the instructor for my PD and the State mandated course has use shooting the last stage for qualification up close and touching the target, (high block, punch, elbow strike, or just grabing the target.) But the Officers shooting the course have more training and strict supervision. I know the technique you are saying. It was taught at the last couple of classes I took at Sig. Non dominate hand across the chest or grabbing the back pocket of your pants for safety. Safety first!

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2009, 01:04:22 PM »

Do you practice both strong and weak hand when at the range?
And what range to you shoot?
Days before the match i would pull out what ever gun I was planning on using and dry fire, draw, and use dummy rounds to reload.
I would also dry fire with both hands, stong, weak and Two hand weak.
With the Autos, I would work on my grips with the slide back, so I would not have to worry about slide cutting me when shooting.
When single hand I work on tucking in non-shooting hand.

Noreaster · « **Reply #7 on:** November 04, 2009, 01:30:57 PM »

Simunition school in CT. They video everything. Up close hard and fast students use point shooting. If the student has time, distance or cover they pick up the sights and shooting techniques. It's good to practise both. With LE time and money is a factor. We look at encounters and the majority of the time it's close in, so we have shifted the training in that direction, (more drills up close than far away.) Mass State Police switched their training years ago and the hit ratios sky rocketed, (check out Mike Conti's web sight Saber Group.) I took a class on instinctive shooting with Saber Group and it mirrored a class I took with the Swedish Police, Ulf Peterson. There's got to be something to it. I'm not smart enough to come up with this stuff on my own. Hey if your interested in home defense there is a flashlight by Brite Strike, (I think thats the right name,) it's a pulsating strobe like flashlight that, if pointed at an intruder, will give you allot of time.

Savage · « **Reply #8 on:** November 04, 2009, 02:00:30 PM »

The MIL has been in and out of the hospital so much lately, that practice sessions have been few. When I do get a chance to practice, I like to shoot at various ranges. To me, the standard 25yd slow fire drills are boring. I do some one shot drills at 25yds just to check my index and trigger control, but most of my drills are probably closer to 10-15 yds. All reloads are done at speed. I start from the holster using a timer set on random start to check for progress (Or lack thereof) I like to shoot some on the move as well as a little strong hand/weak hand shooting. Not near as much of that as I should. Often I move over to the rifle range and have a go at the 100yd gong before packing up. Love to shoot, I WILL make more time for it soon.
Savage

45-70.gov · « **Reply #9 on:** November 04, 2009, 02:45:29 PM »

i do a lot of ....point and squees the laser botton

couple hundred rounds/flashes a week

diferent lighting distences practice at home

practice on punching maniquin

crimson trace lazer grip

williamlayton · « **Reply #10 on:** November 04, 2009, 02:46:48 PM »

For any who think this is a boring conversation---I can assure you that the advice of these two gents is worth the re-read.
The problem with practice is that it gets reputatious--or you ingrain your thinking to set circumstances.
The games are a good. The scenes change.
Most of us don't have the advantage of a coach.
Basic skills pratice are good--just don't let yourself get lost in believing it all happens as in practice.
It is often like going into fun house---you never know what is going to pop up,or, when.
Real life is not scripted as in the movies---and they can get re-takes.
Try and set up a stage where you can't take the shot and must realize it on the fly.
Blessings

Savage · « **Reply #11 on:** November 04, 2009, 03:08:13 PM »

Good advice on the "No Shoot" targets William. That brings up another point, practice is always better with a shooting buddy. It's fun to have a buddy to move targets around while you face up range, then you turn and engage the threat targets without shooting the no shoot. Not to mention all the good ribbing and trash talk that goes with it.
Savage

Willum241 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 05, 2009, 06:28:05 AM »

These are valuable posts for me on practice, especially those that involve dry firing. With the scarcity of .380 right now I'm trying to budget my ammo usage while still practicing effectively.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #13 on:** November 05, 2009, 06:52:05 AM »

I shoot IDPA ( not as much as I once did ) , three gun matches , take classes from time to time , dry fire alot , pratice odd shooting positions , while moving , different light conditions , pratice drawing the weapon , shoot skeet ( great for shot gun pratice ) , range work with rifle and i like to hunt with self defense guns some each year where legal ( it not only gets me pratice it also allows me to see what the gun / bullet combo will do .
The off hand safety is important for sure , but the draw is also a safety issue but also a move that can mean winning/living or lead to a fumble and injury or death from your attacker .
I like to draw alot and dry fire when range time is hard to come by . Also anytime i switch the type clothes i wear i do some draws to make sure everything works as it should or i think it will.
Some of the classes involved shooting / gun control while being thrown to the ground when not expecting it . Many things can happen in the real world that you may not expect . Try shooting laying on the ground fireing under a vehicle etc. Another good thing to pratice is clearing the weapon of jams or other failures , friends and i load each others gun often slipping in an empty case , time the string and slow man buys the drinks .
When possible make pratice worth something like the drink deal .

A gun should be an extension of you , you should know how to present it so as to protect it from being taken from you .

One thing to do is keep the gun with you until you know it inside and out , where it is at all times . Its easier to say than do . Even more for a long gun . Can you load them one handed ? cycle and fire one handed ? even the off hand ?
Pratice loading the gun in the dark , pratice loading a magazine in the dark then geet it in the gun .

rockbilly · « **Reply #14 on:** November 05, 2009, 04:15:56 PM »

Any practice where BOTH the target and the shooter are moving is a help.

Most people give me the impression that, "now I have my CCW, a high capacity big bore whatever and I am ready for whatever presents its self." Friends, I don't think many of us have been witness to a gunfight where both the shooters are not moving. A SHTF situation requires one to be able to HIT something other than a still silhouette target………just keep in mind, when the lead starts flying the feet will start moving!

Tonk · « **Reply #15 on:** November 05, 2009, 07:01:46 PM »

I don't practice via shooting in IDPA matches or steel plates, Cowboys or whatever events are going on East or West of the great divide. Those matches are another type of practice and any good type of practice is better than letting the pistol just sit in your nightstand draw or in your gun vault. We practice mostly from 3 to 15ft in distance to the target, this is done as fast as one can draw and shoot the target or multiple targets. We also later in the session, shoot at 25yds and 50 yds getting behind a barrier (plastic barrel at the range) We set up single and multiple targets at various yardages. We also practice shooting on the move because a moving target is much harder for the bad guy to hit.

We practice being in a car and shooting from the front seat, left or right side, using a cross draw or sometimes a shoulder rig. We also practice shooting from a down position, as in YOU just got knocked down to the ground, draw the weapon and fire upward at the target.

williamlayton · « **Reply #16 on:** November 05, 2009, 09:03:39 PM »

Never freeze---you become the target.
Never hide---you become a still target.
Movement---IMO---is a big key in self-defense.
Hard not to freeze--too become an observer.
Blessings

Andrew Quigley · « **Reply #17 on:** December 14, 2009, 04:11:24 AM »

I've been shooting Cowboy Action Shooting for the last 10 yrs and thought that was good enough until a friend asked me to help out with some bounty hunting. Boy did that open my eyes! Remember the day before my first outing I knew I needed to practice my draw and reloading. So that night I spent hrs in my garage going over it and wishing I'd been doing this as long as I'd been shooting CAS.
The bounty hunting didn't last long do to some other problems but since then I have stepped up my practicing a lot. I even do IDPA matches and I find it to be a big help. The local club is really focused on doing stages that you'd find in the real world. Didn't one the other day that reminded me I need to do more weak hand drills.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2009, 04:34:06 PM »

Don't we all.
Before matches I would pull out the gun and the rig and some dummy shells.
And dry fire strong, weak, both, reload, and draw.
Oh I would start the Weak hand drills with two hands with the slide back. That way I could work on my grip knowing where the slide was going in a big hurry after the first shot.
Do you all use 22's in your training at the range?

superpig1047 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 05, 2010, 06:20:46 PM »

Any form of firearms training that puts pressure on the shooter and streeses the shooter will aid in the outcome of any defensive situation due to the bodys reactions to "startle response" and the body realizing I'm ok I've done this before. During the adrinalin dump of a stress full situation the body reverts back to gross motor skills and as a result you should train with your defensive gun accordingly. The training will not make it muscle memory because these actions your body has are already pre-programmed from the old flight or fight consept. However IDPA doesn't have you shoot from your back or inside of a car or when it's dead dark. All of those examples have a high probablity of being what would happen should you have to use your defensive handgun. There are diffrent shooting methods such as extend,touch,press that will aid in you becoming comforatable in the way your body will react.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** February 08, 2010, 08:27:40 AM »

One thing is to make training mean something . If a group is shooting togather its nice to put up something of cost . Say the guy that shoots the best group with the best time using the off hand gets a free drink or everyone put in a dollar etc . For one class i took we had a course of fire , the instructor had a dish pan with a bunch of dollar bills . It was a timed shoot - 1.5 seconds at 7 yards draw and fire . Target was a 3X5 index card at eye level . You had to shoot 5 times . a hit you picked up a dollar a miss you added a dollar . Second shoot was 2 seconds at 15 yards draw and fire two shots at a sheet of typing paper. Same bet .
Made me pratice ! The point was to make you pratice hard not just shoot and say well if it mattered i would do better . Most don't do as well as they pratice .
IDPA or other shooting games add stress a good thing to learn to deal with.