Author Topic: Need help w/ neck expanding die  (Read 1175 times)

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Offline ButlerFord45

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Need help w/ neck expanding die
« on: December 22, 2009, 06:22:59 AM »
Lyman has the "M" die, RCBS has their "NECK EXPANDER DIE" each of which are sized 308, 309, 310 and 311.  My problem is which one I need to use.   My bore is .3085", I'm sizing to .310".  I don't know if they are numbered by their actual size or the size of the bullet it is for.  If I want to use a neck expanding die, which do I need?


Thanks
BF
Butler Ford
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Offline PA-Joe

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2009, 07:55:02 AM »
Are you talking about an expander for straight walled cases. I didn't know they came in sizes. Usually I just screw them up or down in the press to get the expansion I need.

Offline ButlerFord45

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2009, 08:06:47 AM »
No, Sir, I'm talking bottle neck.  They should expand the sized neck to .001' smaller than the bullet diameter and a slightly larger opening at the mouth to start the bullet square.
Thanks
BF
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline Tom W.

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 12:21:56 AM »
I use the RCBS .309 die, and if I screw it in too far I can get some pretty interesting cases......and it will work with bullets sized for .309 to some Ranch Dog bullets that are supposed to be cast at .311
Tom
Alabama Hunter and firearms safety instructor

I really like my handguns!

Offline w30wcf

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 01:28:38 AM »
BF,
This is the one you need.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=409943

For bullet diameters of .312" the 31S would be the correct one.

w30wcf 
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka John Kort
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.22 WCF, .30WCF, .44WCF cartridge historian

Offline Hank08

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 03:41:55 AM »
I love the M dies, have about 150 sets of dies and have a M die for each die set and some times 2 where i use cast and jacketed bullets.  Probably .309 will be what you want.  This number is the size it will expand the neck.  In a bolt gun you might get better accuracy with a .310 but in a lever gun magazine tube they might get pushed back into the case.  You need a micrometer to know exactly what size the expander is and what size your bullets are.  You might find that a .310 sizer is sizing .309 or .311.
H08

Offline ButlerFord45

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 08:15:11 AM »
Thanks folks, the bullets after sizing are close enough to .310 that it takes another decimal place to describe them.  I figured I was trying to over think this.

Thanks again
BF
Butler Ford
He who does not punish evil, commands it to be done.-Leonardo da Vinci
An armed society is a polite society-Robert A. Heinlein
Only the dead have seen the end of war- Plato
Lord, make my words as sweet as honey
tomorrow I may have to eat them- A lady's sweatshirt

Offline pourboy

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2009, 05:02:18 PM »
My Lymans are simply marked "30 Cal Short" & 30 Cal long". My 303 M die is marked"31 Cal Long".

Offline ricktile66

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2010, 09:33:49 AM »
I agree the Lyman M die I use Just says .30 cal long M2 09 which may mean it is .309.  My bullets are .310 after sizing and it works just fine.  I have also used the same expander with .309 bullets and they seem just as tight as the .310 bullets after seating.  The main thing is to get a little flare at the case mouth to prevent shaving lead off the bullets.  The M long also barely works with the .308.  I have it screwed down as far as it will go to get a very slight flare to the mouth of the case.

Offline Steve P

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2010, 09:55:53 AM »
The "M" dies have a plug that has rounded edges on the bottom, parallel sides up to a slight taper.  If your case is a little undersize, the rounded edges will have to help "center" the case, or it will crush it.  The RCBS expander dies have an undersized button with a taper that is quite a bit longer than the 'M' die.  It will center the brass better and less chance for crushing or inverting a case mouth.

I took the expander plugs out of my 'M' dies and ground the tip of the button so they were more tapered and less apt to crush or invert the case mouth.  After polishing the grind marks out, they work good.

Either work well if adjusted properly.  You only want the case mouth open enough to accept the base of your bullet.  If you open the case up too much several things will happen; first, it will not go into the bullet seat die.  If it does go into the die, but still open too much, after about the 3rd firing, you will start to split cases at the mouth from over working the brass.  Base of the bullet just fits in the opening, may even balance, and does not shave lead or copper.  If shaving lead, open a little more.  If bullet clearly fits and even starts to go inside the case, you are expanding too much.  Sometimes a fine line adjustment.  Mixed cases or untrimmed cases will become evident rather quickly, just like in the roll crimp die.

Steve :)
"Life is a play before an audience of One.  When your play is over, will your audience stand and applaude, or stay seated and cry?"  SP 2002

Offline Hank08

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2010, 08:31:55 AM »
I do the same thing on my M dies.  If that flat nose ever nicks a case mouth I taper them by putting them in a drill press and using a dremel.  I also mike both the diameters and inscribe it on top of the die.  They vary somewhat from die to die.
H08

Offline budman46

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2010, 04:09:08 AM »
i retired my "m" dies when i got a lee expander die; it bells the case mouth of any cartidge from .22 to .50, which is all i want.

budman
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Need help w/ neck expanding die
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2010, 12:38:24 PM »
I use the Sinclair neck expanders (with my own mandrels) up to .375 and the Lyman M dies with standard and modified mandrels above that.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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