Traveling with firearms

[Leatherstocking]

Wasn't sure where to put this so I'll ask here. I am planning a trip to WY next year and will be flying out of Laguardia airport in NYC. I checked with TSA about requirements and one of the things they say is to put your locked hard side case into another suitcase of some sort. Here is the response from TSA:

"The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is required by law to electronically screen all checked baggage that goes aboard a commercial passenger flight.  If electronic screening cannot verify that a bag and its contents are safe to bring onboard the flight, TSOs will inspect the bag by hand.  TSA, therefore, encourages (but does not require) passengers to keep their checked bags unlocked to facilitate the process and reduce the need to break locks.
 
TSA recommends that you place the locked hard-sided container with the firearm inside a suitcase or other bag before you check it with your airline.  This will allow you to leave your suitcase unlocked but also to comply with the requirement that the firearm be in a locked container.
 
You can use a hard-sided locked suitcase as the sole container for your firearm.  However, this can lead to one of the two following complications if your bag needs to be inspected by hand. If the TSOs can determine from the screening equipment that the bag contains a firearm, they will not open it.  They will instead attempt to locate you and obtain the key or combination so that they can inspect the bag.  If they cannot locate you, the bag will not be allowed onboard the aircraft.
 
If the TSOs do not see that the bag contains a firearm before they open it, they may force open the lock and proceed to inspect the bag.  Once the lock is forced open, the bag cannot be allowed on an aircraft until it is relocked.  TSA will attempt to locate you and make suitable arrangements. 

These potential inconveniences can be avoided by following TSA's recommendation that you pack your firearm by itself in a separate, hard-sided, locked container and pack the container inside your suitcase.  If TSOs need to open your bag to inspect it, they will be able to do so with out breaking a lock on the bag.
 
Once the TSOs open the bag, they will see the declaration in your suitcase and will not open the locked container encasing the firearm.  They will proceed to search the bag, close it, and (presuming the bag is free of prohibited items) will be able to allow it onboard your flight."



How is it practical to do this? Also, if anyone else has any experience flying out of the NY airports  I would appreciate any info to help make it go  smoothly. Thanks.

[Hairtrigger]

TSA has inspected the rifle case with me watching then I lock it and send it down the bag conveyor.
Airlines do seem to be even rougher on gun cases than normal luggage... if that is possible

[milespb]

The only suggestion I can make is unless you have a non-stop flight I would try my best to ship them to your destination. When I flew to WY 2 years ago my baggage showed up two days later.

[Mikey]

I would drive.

[pastorp]

I fly with guns frequently. Most airports will now have you take your locked guncase directly to the tsa inspection area. I only put handguns in their locked case into my suitcase, long guns I use a locked hard case. The newer cases have tsa locks or you can buy tsa locks so they have the keys that fit.

The only things I would recomend is buy a heavy duty case like the SKB brand. I did have one case destroyed, one whole end was broken. Amazing enough the gun was not damaged. It was a cheep case and the airline gave my a new one.  And don't put any ammo into the gun case. Pack that into another checked bag.

All the airports I fly into & out of are gun friendly. I avoid NY and Boston like the plague. When I fly to Maine to hunt with my friend I fly into New Hampiture even though Boston would be quite a bit cheeper for the airline ticket.

Regards,

[Leatherstocking]

Do you know where you can buy TSA locks? That sounds like the way to go

I would drive.

Thanks Mikey  If my son could share the driving with me I would!

[pastorp]

Here in alaska wal-mart sells them. I also bought a SKB case in atlanta at basspro shop that had the perment ones installed.

My older SKB cases don't have the tsa locks but they make travel much easier. 

Regards,

[Ramhunter]

Guys, there are a couple of misleading or outdated statements in some of these posts.  In fact TSA approved locks are not approved for use on gun cases.  The TSA regulations require that only the owner has the keys or combination to the locks on gun cases.  TSA locks have keys that are available to others (primarily to TSA employees). But by now, many others have also gained access.  SKB mis-read the regulations when they introduced cases with “TSA approved locks”.  They have since had to modify their case design to eliminate the “TSA locks” and have issued a “quick fix to cover the non-approved cases that they sold prior to being put on notice.

On another note, the TSA does permit ammunition to be shipped in the same case as firearms.  However, individual airlines have differing regulations.  Some, like Northwest’ permit ammo to be shipped in the gun case, others do not.  It is always desirable to check with the individual airline to learn their policy.

[pastorp]

Ramhunter, I last flew in november 2009 and TSA said nothing about these changes. I boadred a delta flight in Atlanta headed back to Alaska. My SKB case had the new TSA locks. When did SKB recall these locks? I've recieved nothing from SKB concerning a recall.

Regards,

[Ramhunter]

Pastorp,

My info came from the following thread: http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8121043/m/1321059411/p/1

This blew up in August of last year and it is possible the current status of the controversy may have changed since then.  The thread indicates that the TSA website clearly stated that "TSA locks" were not acceptable on gun cases.  Also SKB was recommending some temporary fixes.  My search of the TSA website indicates that only the owner of a locked gun case is permitted to have a key; but I saw no specific prohibition on TSA locks mentioned.  Also, the SKB website continues to offer cases with TSA locks.

It is possible that since last August, TSA has modified their stance.  My recommendation would be to check with both TSA and the customer service group at SKB to determine the latest status of the issue.  In any event, I would say that TSA locks have been out now for several years, and undoubtedly by now keys to these locks have spread to non-TSA people.  The locks themselves are not very sturdy and would offer only minimal resistance to a thief.  While I use TSA locks on my luggage as a minimal deterent, I use substantially better built Master padlocks on my gun cases.

By the way,  the local TSA agents and airline personnel are frequently ignorant of specific regulations and policies regarding firearm travel.  I always print out and carry a copy of the TSA regs and a copy of the specific airline firearm travel regs when I fly.  It has saved me some frustration more than once.

Hope this helps.

[pastorp]

So your saying that web info you read(with no personal experience) trumps my actual flight experience only2 months ago.  Interesting.

Regards,

[Ramhunter]

Pastrop,

Sorry, I am sincerely trying to help a fellow hunter get at the truth in this matter.  I have no doubt concerning your personal experiance.  However, I will guarantee that the local personnel at both the TSA and the airlines sometimes have limited and/or incorrect interpretations of the laws and regs. See my private communication to you and I will try to provide more info than Greybeard permits on this forum.

[pastorp]

Ramhunter, I did not tell you all the travel that case with the TSA approved locks has been used for. I used it in Nov. My son in law came to alaska to spend christmas with us, he used it to fly back to atlanta from ketchikan right after christmas. Then in january he flew from atlanta to south florida for a duck hunt with the same case and back to atlanta.

Not sure how much actual travel experience you need but since I bought this case in october its been around. You can think what you want but the TSA agents in ketchikan, atlanta, & miami don't seam to agree with you. 

Just curious but where have you flown with a firearm?

Regards,

[pastorp]

To whom it may concern,

I just got off the phone with SKB. They staited they are still selling their cases with TSA locks. They said last summer TSA disapproved the use of the TSA locks but quickly retracted that disapproval and now accept the TSA locks both the perment locks or the padlock type.

SKB did state that their still running into an occasional problem with some airlines that have adopted the policy of not approving the TSA locks bases upon the TSA rulling that was retracted last summer. But as far as the TSA your legal to use the TSA locks.

Guess thats why I didn't have any problems flying with my new case.   There now arn't you glad we got that cleared up Ramhunter. If you doubt what I just posted you should call them yourself, 714-637-1252

Regards,

Oh and by the way, You made reference a couple times to Graybeard not liking the No-name site you got your information from. Perhaphs he just don't like bad information being repeated here.

[Ramhunter]

Pastorp,

In response to your question, I have flown all over the world with my firearms for hunting including: one trip to Alaska, five trips to British Columbia, two trips to the Yukon, one trip to the Northwest Territories, two trips to Alberta, one trip to Quebec, one trip to Newfoundland, one trip to New Zealand, two trips to Africa and many, many trips within the lower 48.

As I pointed out, the information  reported on the other website concerned TSA and SKB actions which occurred last August (2009) and were completly accurate at the time of posting.  I am glad you took my advise and checked with SKB to determine the current status.  Because I do not use TSA locks on any of my gun cases, I have no reason to follow developments on the subject.

I do not know the specifics of the problem Greybeard has with the other website; but reading between the lines, he had some verbal conflicts with some of the posters on the site over some topic and chose to prevent any links to that site.  As he owns this site, it is his right to run it in any fashion he chooses and I respect that right.  Unfortunately this policy prevents referals to one of the best and most knowledgable hunting sites on the web.

I am glad this issue has been resolved and we can all get back to hunting. 

[Leatherstocking]

OK, now I am really confused. But I appreciate all the info. Once I know what airline I'll be on I guess I'll check into it more. Wish I could drive like Mikey said!

[pastorp]

Leatherstocking, Sorry you got caught in all of this. Perhaps Ramhunters intentions were good but he sure caused you a lot of grief. With a low post count we just don't know new people. You probably know that you can get all kinds of so called facts on the web. If Ramhunter really wanted to help he should a checked out his facts for accuracy, and if he has flown as much as he claims I think he would not need a website to gleen this info from. JMO.

Anyway In my experience for the last couple of years the airports I've flown in & out of have you accompany your firearm to the TSA area so you should have no problems. Whichever lock you use just have a key with you. If they want the key they will ask you for it. Just make sure that you declare the firearm to the ticket agent checking you in.

Regards,

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  While I have not flown for many years with my firearms, and do not intend to if possible in the near future...when I was flying alot, some airlines and airports are very hunter friendly, and others of course the opposite...One thing I know I would do is check closely with the airlines your are using and the airports you are using....try and get the rules in writing...I had one airline employee in New York try and tell me I could not take ammo that was not in factory boxes...when I told her I have the regulations in my pocket, she merely told the cleck to help this man check in, and went on her way to cause trouble for some one else. All of us have diff. experiences with these companies...I would also check just before I left to see if there has been any changes...As someone mentioned, you might consider shipping your rifles to the destination and not bother taking them on the airlines...One thing also, some airlines are super to deal with US Air used to require me to take my rifles to a special shipping point and pick them up at another special baggage claim..It was excellent treatment...Once when we flew back from Africa, our rifles got on the flight ahead of us from New York to Pitt. When my pal and I got there, no rifles......as we waited and wondered what to do next, a baggage man came out of the claim office and ask if we lost something...we said yes our rifles ....he ask for my name, and then said, they came in early and no one picked them up so I stored them in the office.....What a guy...we wrote a letter to the company thanking them and the office man for his kindness...I did have my name and adddress painted on the side of the the alum. case..that way it would not scuff off during handling...Good luck....

[Leatherstocking]

Sounds good guys. Thanks.