Pyrodex and Black Powder

[Dixie Dude]

I know Pyrodex and powder can be loaded in shells.  Do you put 70 grains of Pyrodex in a 45-70 like you would black powder?  I am considering this instead of Reloader 7 and/or 4198 for my cast lead loads in 45-70 and 44 mag.  I don't want to overload them.  Is there data available for these or do you just fill them up? 

[Dances with Geoducks]

You can use pryo just like real black.

A word of warning, that is 70 grains by VOLUME, not weight.

I have some older reloading manuals (from the 50s & 60s) that show different loads per bullet weight per scale weight not volume.

Ive measured them both, and 70 grains of powder (volume) is about 47.5 grains weighed.
Yet the books say 52.3 grains weighed.

I load 53grs with 300-350 jacketed, and 400gr cast. Thats all that will fit in the case, compressed with a veggie wad separator.
The 300-350 have to have a dacron filler also.

 

[Dixie Dude]

So if I put 47 grains of Pyrodex in with a 405 gr cast bullet it should work?  If it is loose, does it have to be packed or compressed?  I guess I will probably just get some Reloader 7 or 4198 and be done with it.  Would be safer it sounds like. 

[stimpylu32]

So if I put 47 grains of Pyrodex in with a 405 gr cast bullet it should work?  If it is loose, does it have to be packed or compressed?  I guess I will probably just get some Reloader 7 or 4198 and be done with it.  Would be safer it sounds like. 

Yes it will have to be slightly compressed , also you will need some type of filler to take up the air space between the powder and the bullet or else there is a good chance that you will ring your chamber to the point of damage .

Look this link over , it will help you understand what I'm talking about .

http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/bp_cartridge_reloading_dick_trenk.htm

stimpy

[quickdtoo]

Here's Hodgdon's loading notes for Pyrodex.

Tim

http://hodgdon.com/loading.html

[Dances with Geoducks]

53 grains is a compressed load. I compress all my loads.

Forgot to mention 3 helpful tools. Volume measure, drop tube, and compression die.

There is a lot more to loading black, than modern. I bought my volume measure (now dont use it) It was only $5.
The compression die and 45 cal ram was $30 on sale from Cabellas. I made my own drop tube from $3 bucks of wood, and a $12 hunk of brass tubing.

Using modern powder is not any safer, just easier and nicer clean up.

I was given 2lbs of pyrodex, and have a real black stash for my flintlock. So trying it was worth the extra few tools.

R-7 is a hotter, cleaner powder, IMR-4198 even better. Unless you have IMR-4895, stay away, its darn accurate, but a very dirty powder. I use it for my heavy boolits because I have lots of it.

Only reason I use R-7 and not IMR-4198 is it works in my 30-30s also.

[necchi]

  I guess I will probably just get some Reloader 7 or 4198 and be done with it.  Would be safer it sounds like. 

That would be a good bet!. Unless you have specific data for BP/Pyrodex DON'T use it.

 There are burn rate issues with BP much the same as smokeless. Pyrodex is only made in 2 that I know of.
 "P"--is like 3f (fffg) with a pistol burn rate
 "RS"--is like 2f (ffg) with a rifle burn rate
The gents I know that load cartridge BP guns use Goex "Cartridge" grade powder, this stuff is slower than 2f. There are also issue's of compressed loads and/or "fillers" used to take up any free space in the cartridge behind the bullet.
My point is, Yes lot's of folks use the stuff, but they have the data to keep it safe.

[Dances with Geoducks]

I compress and fill my modern powder loads also.

Straight wall cases fire more evenly when the powder is packed against the primer, and not laying flat.

[stimpylu32]

Not sure how many pounds of RS I have shot in my 45/70 Handi rifle , do know its over 20 though , I just happen to like the way it shoots with it and a heavy cast bullet .

It was a learning curve till I got the hang of it , thank goodness I had a mentor ( GregP42 ) that was able to walk & talk me through it , still have both eyes , both hands and both brain cells . 

Honestly , its not as bad as it sounds , it just takes a different mind set than loading with smokeless . 

stimpy

[Dixie Dude]

I have an 1873 Springfield acutally made in 1884.  I want to shoot lead bullets out of it because of the old thin rifling.  Also, I want to try a light load to make sure it can still fire.  Everything works on it and I replaced some springs and such.  How would you guys recommend firing it? in a vice or hold it on the hip and fire it turned to the side away from me? 

[stimpylu32]

DD

First thing to do is have a compentent gun smith deside if its safe to shoot , if he gives it the thumbs up , then look at some of the light cowboy loads using Trail Boss .

The TB loads run at very low pressure and the powder was designed for shooting in old guns and their clone's that will not stand up to todays high pressure smokeless loads .

stimpy

[Dixie Dude]

Thanks, may have to get some Trailboss.

[Dances with Geoducks]

How would you guys recommend firing it?

Bungee cord it on top of an old tire, and use a string to fire it remotely.

Ive seen a few old barrels that were thin on skin, which Id not fire.

My Buddy, shoots them all the time with light loads in there (9-10cup)