Author Topic: pure lead (Read 1569 times)

cbourbeau32 · « **on:** February 09, 2010, 07:15:20 AM »

I have a fairly large amount of old lead piping that I am getting ready to melt and clean up for casting bullets out of. My question is this. I am getting a 10lb melting pot to melt it in. Is there rule of thumb for how much tin to add to a 10lb pot of lead? I will probably be using solder to add tin for now even though it is a little more expensive than other methods. I will be shooting my 41 magnum in the 1000-1100 fps range if that helps. Thanks, Charlie

D Crockett · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2010, 07:59:40 AM »

If I were you I would trade it to the black powder shooters for Wheel weight they would be happy and you would be much better off using ww and solder for your bullets D Crockett

Dezynco · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2010, 11:13:12 AM »

You could purchase a block of pure tin from MidwayUSA. Use a mix of 20:1 or so, should work well. The suggestion above about trading it for wheel weight lead is also a good idea. You could probably come out a little ahead because pure lead is prized amongst black powder shooters, but don't be too greedy! Maybe 1.5lbs wheel weights for 1lb pure lead? Worth a try.

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2010, 12:26:07 PM »

Everyone seems to make such suggestions on trading pure lead for wheel weights as if they think all of us know tons of folks who are into muzzle loading and casting their own pure lead balls. Quite honestly I know none around here tho suppose there could be some.

I also have no real source of wheel weights and am not aware of anyone who does. The suggestion on the surface seems sound but in practical application I have to wonder how feasible it really is.

I seem to recall that workng with pure tin is not so easy as working with a lead-tin solder alloy. But be aware that tin doesn't really do a lot to harden up the metal and that's the job of antimony which is a real bear to work with unless already alloyed.

I do agree wheel weight metal is much better for your needs and if you could arrange such a swap locally without the cost for shipping it would be wise but doubt the practicality of it.

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2010, 01:58:44 PM »

Don't be overly quick to do away with your pure lead.

Pick up a Lyman's cast bullet book and they can guide you with the direction to go.

Recently I spoke with a fellow who had owned a sporting good store in our area for years.

He has sold out and retired, but before doing so hunted extensively both in the USA and a fair amount beyond the boarders.

Before he retired, he started to get into the black powder cartridge game where they shoot the silly wet critters, some of which are at extended distances.

I ask him what alloy he was using, and the answer was 30 to 1 - lead to tin.

Some he said were shooting down to a 40 to 1 ratio.

Anyway, 20 to 1 is a fairly common mix and depending on what you are wanting to shoot, and at what velocities etc., you may find an alloy which will do just fine.

For sure, don't give it away without checking.

Other good sources for cast bullet info are "Cast Boolets" and Cast Bullet asso, (CBA), both of which can supply lots of usefull info..

With wheel wts. starting to be harder to get, check and double check before giving up potential bullet metal.

Keep em Coming!

CDOC

res45 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2010, 03:00:30 AM »

I would keep my lead,with a little math and some alloy you can make up your own usable alloy,this web site gives you a lot of info on bullet casting and how to mix your own alloys.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2010, 03:07:04 AM »

Dosen't Lyman print a ratio in their reloading guide ?
I go to tire stores and most are willing to give old weights away . I have about 50 lbs at home now .

ShadowMover · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2010, 06:28:29 AM »

For those extreme do it yourself types, and to make the information known:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=1xxoAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=%22purifying+lead%22++aluminum&source=bl&ots=DnwFi9_szj&sig=hlch64EAvZXWT2BbLj9pVwfl6Dw&hl=en&ei=byJ8S_Fah4i1A42ktOgH&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAkQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=%22purifying%20lead%22%20%20aluminum&f=false

This involves pouring your lead alloy containing who knows what, into a molten batch of Aluminum. The various components hardening the Lead, such as Zinc (Zn), Tin (Sn), Antimony (Sb), Arsenic (As), Copper (Cu), Calcium (Ca), and others, will dissolve in the molten Aluminum and form 'crusts' or other alloys that will float on top of the molten Lead (Pb). The Aluminum has to be molten, about 1250F for this to work. Don't add anything but melted Lead alloys to this or you will end up wearing it. In fact, it's not a project for anyone not comfortable melting aluminum with a gas or charcoal furnace.

Be careful, as this involves high temperatures and molten metal.

mechanic · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2010, 03:55:32 PM »

Quote from: ShadowMover on February 17, 2010, 06:28:29 AM

For those extreme do it yourself types, and to make the information known:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=1xxoAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=%22purifying+lead%22++aluminum&source=bl&ots=DnwFi9_szj&sig=hlch64EAvZXWT2BbLj9pVwfl6Dw&hl=en&ei=byJ8S_Fah4i1A42ktOgH&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAkQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=%22purifying%20lead%22%20%20aluminum&f=false

This involves pouring your lead alloy containing who knows what, into a molten batch of Aluminum. The various components hardening the Lead, such as Zinc (Zn), Tin (Sn), Antimony (Sb), Arsenic (As), Copper (Cu), Calcium (Ca), and others, will dissolve in the molten Aluminum and form 'crusts' or other alloys that will float on top of the molten Lead (Pb). The Aluminum has to be molten, about 1250F for this to work. Don't add anything but melted Lead alloys to this or you will end up wearing it. In fact, it's not a project for anyone not comfortable melting aluminum with a gas or charcoal furnace.

Be careful, as this involves high temperatures and molten metal.

Be especially careful, as you are approaching the vaporization point of lead, and it can be easily aspirated at temps a bit above this........

lee1954 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2010, 06:26:19 PM »

Now there is extreme casting ?

Keep some soft lead ---I like pure lead in casting my self defence loads.. It is nice to have some lead on hand .
Dan

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2010, 02:38:47 AM »

Not all plumbing lead is the same either . There is lesd for pouring joints , lead for wiping joints , lead sheets for making pans and lead pipe . Some is harder than other . wiping lead is virgin lead and melts at a lower temp. than lead we use to pour joints with . You can hold a rack of pouring lead and tap it with a hammer and it will ring wher virgin lead will have a thud sound .

ShadowMover · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2010, 05:38:24 AM »

Yes there may be some lead vapor in the air if you pour molten lead alloys into molten aluminum. It will quickly turn to a lead dust because the boiling point of Lead is over 3180 degrees Fahrenheit. Cast Iron melts at about 2500F. BTW the boiling point of any liquid is defined as when it's vapor pressure is the same as atmospheric pressure. All liquids have the ability to give off some gas or vapor, which is called it's vapor pressure. Common sense dictates this work be done outdoors, and with good ventilation. A good dust mask will keep you safe. Don't eat , drink, or smoke until you have changed your clothes and had a shower.

Pure Lead does give a thud when hit, while most alloys are stiffer and may ring a little more when hit. You can scratch pure Lead with your fingernail, but it gets hard to do with added Tin and Antimony

Shootall, did you get wiping lead mixed up with virgin lead? You want a lower temperature lead alloy or solder to wipe with. Alloys have a lower melting point than the pure stuff. Pure soft Lead melts at 621F while 50/50 solder melts at 421F while 63 tin /37 lead is 361F. Alloys almost always melt at a lower temperature than the pure metals. You're a good man if you can wipe a Lead joint with pure Lead, without melting the original material. I always thought you used pure lead in oakum pipe joints, because it was softer, but just about any scrap that will melt will work in an oakum poured cast iron joint, but you risk breaking the iron pipe when you hammer the Lead to expand the joint. A lot of scrap lead with solder finds it's way into the melting pot. If you don't hammer it in it may leak. I may be wrong, but I'm curious.

Old Fart · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2010, 05:54:13 AM »

You might try and find some linotype to mix with it when needed.
I keep a flat rate box of it around just for this purpose.
I bought it off that internet website.....evilbay I think it's called.

Seems I find plenty of lead when I look hard enough.
But like said WW's are getting harder to find.
The lyman book can help you determine how much linotype to add.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2010, 06:15:39 AM »

nope we got virgin to wipe with

mechanic · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2010, 03:32:36 PM »

Shadowmover knows his lead........

gypsyman · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2010, 05:18:38 PM »

cbourbeau32, you might try getting a bag of Lawrence Chilled Magnum shot. It contains tin and antimony. Many years ago I was told, I think, 8# lead, to 2# of the shot, and that will bring your hardness up. Also, if you so desire, if you want to water drop your bullets, this will definetly bring up the hardness. gypsyman

cbourbeau32 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2010, 04:36:30 PM »

Thanks for all the replies. I did buy a Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook. So far I really like the book. One poster advised me to hold on to the lead. I will definately do that. I plan to buy some linotype to mix with it. Some I will save for ML bullets. Thanks again, Charlie

45-70.gov · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2010, 04:48:10 PM »

i too have a lot of pure lead

i have been happy with 50/50
pure lead to WW

how ever after this thread below

i will be going to 30% WW to 70 pure

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,200172.0.html

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2010, 11:43:57 PM »

thats what i would probably do with it. Mixed 5050 with ww it makes a decent alloy for up to about 900 fps and if you water drop the bullets it will do well up to about 1200. Lead tin alloys can be a bugger to cast with. A little tin helps but when you add enough to make 20 to 1 it can cause the bullet to not fill out in any hot spot like the sides of a bullet that lay between the two caviitys in the mold. The 5050 mix would be just as hard or harder then 20 to 1 and easier to work with and have the added advantage of having enough arsnic to allow for water dropping or oven heat treating.

Quote from: 45-70.gov on February 20, 2010, 04:48:10 PM

i too have a lot of pure lead

i have been happy with 50/50
pure lead to WW

how ever after this thread below

i will be going to 30% WW to 70 pure

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,200172.0.html

Darrell Davis · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2010, 05:43:05 AM »

WOW Lloyd,

I'll have to take it from the Ol'Hand, you, but I had always heard that more tin equaled better casting.

Hmmmmmmm, old as I am, I just learned something new, again!

Keep em coming!

CDOC

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2010, 01:14:40 AM »

it does to a point but it also can go the other way. It can make the alloy alot more sensitive to temperature of both the lead and the mold. Aluminum molds dump heat faster and actually do better with high tin content alloys then steel molds. When using steel molds you need to slow down and cast slower and at a bit lower temp, this is a time you do not want frosted bullets. Higher content of tin like say 5 to 10 percent will also help if you happen to run into a bit of zinc contamination which is easy to get with the ammount ive found in wws lately. If a new alloy made from wws is casting poorly try adding more tin then usual it seems to help for me. But for normal casting i like to keep the tin content to about 1 percent, 2 percent max.