Author Topic: OK!!! Where do we start (Read 2453 times)

Bingo · « **on:** January 07, 2010, 11:03:49 AM »

First I would like to offer Graybeard a Big Thank You for the New Mauser Forum.

Now, down to business!
A friend of mine (Mustache) was just given an old military Mauser that has had a back yard sporter job done on it. We have been told it is 8mm. We think it is a Spanish 98. Most of the markings have been sanded or polished off.
Mike wants to make a good sporter out of this action. We need opinions and guidance. What we have pretty much come up with is a Timney trigger, Richards Microfit stock, one piece mounts and if it needs re-barreled that will go to ER Shaw.
So, what needs done inside the action.? what would you recomend we do to the Bolt?
What does it take to make an old military Mauser a nice sport rifle?

squirrellluck · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2010, 03:04:08 PM »

Recontour the rear of the action. Throw away the bolt shroud and replace with aftermarket shroud for starters. Recontour will make d and t easier. I also think the action just looks better without that ridge at the stipper clip slot.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2010, 03:55:24 PM »

Well first thing is to determine if it is a large ring or small ring mauuser. Does it cock on opening or closing?

mauser98us · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2010, 04:39:01 PM »

It takes mosly bucks and time to make a Mauser into a good sporter. Buy the book Bolt Action Rifles. I think it's printed bt DBI. Has some good info.

Redtail1949 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2010, 06:41:37 PM »

just picked up my Mitchells Mauser today with all the goodies bayonet and all. It is simply perfect. i own several different ones and i love them all.

HTS · « **Reply #5 on:** January 08, 2010, 01:38:42 PM »

first thing i would do is to check the action for being square and true,not bent or deformed along the rails,there are alot of those out there in milsurp land.and it would be ashame to spend time and money on a bad action.

454Puma · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2010, 07:54:23 PM »

Here is my first K98 RC -nothing collectable ,but so far a good shooter as I love shooting the 8x57mm round!
Generally just love holding a piece of history, my Dad blessed me with two G98/40's at his passing that he had brought back from the war. One used to save his bacon in Italy the other picked up while guarding POW's in Germany!

GatCat · « **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2010, 08:47:20 PM »

As mentioned above, it is not cheap to nicely build up a milsurp. The first thing I would do is to figure out exactly what I"m starting with. There are some that simply are not worth putting the money into..for instance, the Chinese copy's of the '98, very poor metal, etc.
Once you know what you are starting with, for sure, then you can start your plans.
Mark

dwalk · « **Reply #8 on:** March 06, 2010, 08:53:05 AM »

first...like said above...determine if it's a large ring or small ring.

if it's a SMALL ring...you'll need to be cautious with handloads...use the minimum recommended.

i happen to have a small ring 93 Spanish Mauser and the only barrel that is recommended for rebarreling for this particular action is .257 Roberts, or staying with the 7x57.

military barrels undergo a great deal of use/abuse and they should be thoroughly inspected before using; there may have been many mercury primed rounds cycled thru a rifle of that era.

i happen to luck out and find a timiney trigger for mine years ago and it makes a difference; i don't know if there are any good aftermarket triggers available any more, after all these rifles are no longer in demand as they once were. i also installed a heavier firing pin spring to cut down lock time (it does make cocking/closing a little more difficult, too); the firing pin travels nearly an inch. i was unable to find any source for a titanium spring or firing pin.

it's a good idea to have the rifle evaluated by a good gunsmith to see if it would be worth your time and the expense involved to undertake the "sporterization" of one of these old rifles. if during the evaluation it is found the action is not straight and square, they can be straightened, but it should be accomplished by a competent gunsmith.

overall, i find mine to be quite accurate and easy to shoot. i still have the old military barrel on it and if i ever decided to rebarrel, i will probably stay with the 7x57. the 7x57 ammo is still readily available and is one of the great all around cartridges available.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 06, 2010, 08:57:27 AM »

6.5x55 Swede is also another caliber option if a small ring action. Kuhnhasens mauser manual is a great source of information on all mauser actions.

mannyrock · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2010, 10:49:27 AM »

Sorry, but to convert an old military action into a "nice sporter" takes alot of time and money. And, if you are going to spend all of that time and money, then you don't want to start with an old Spanish action. It's like building a classic 57 Chevy, but using a blown out rusted engine.

Do you really want to spend $200 on a new barrel, and have it installed in an action that's not worth but $60?

If you must start with a military rifle, then spend the money to get a model 98, made by FN, that's in really good shape. Or, get a VZ-24 model 98 in really good shape.

You will be much much happier in the end.

Best of Luck,

Mannyrock

billy_56081 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2010, 11:31:22 AM »

Midway has large and small ring mauser barrels for less than 100 bucks.

mannyrock · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2010, 05:18:40 AM »

True Billy. But does he have his own action wrench? Barrel installation equipment? Headspace gauges? Head sinks? Bolt bending blocks?
Drilling and tapping tools? Replacement Stock? Replacement sights? Replacement Trigger? Replacement safety? Cutting and crowning tools? Acra-Glass? Replacement follower and mag spring?

The devilish thing about sporterizing military mausers is that each component, by itself, does not seem to cost that much (a $100 or so), but by the time you add them all up, plus gunsmith time, you are up to the $600 to $800 area really really fast :-)

Just my experience.

Mannyrock

AtlLaw · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2010, 07:53:54 AM »

Quote from: mannyrock on March 08, 2010, 05:18:40 AM

Just my experience.

And experience is a thorough teacher!

As you pointed out Manny, I think, as if anybody cares what I think, that under most circumstances most people should forget the idea of sporterizing a militay rifle. It is NOT cost effective and NOT the way to get a cheap hunting rifle. From what I've seen all you end up with is something that looks like the classic "Bubba been here" rifle.

That said, I have one rifle I had built for me on a Swedish Mauser action. But the only thing still military on it are the basic parts of the original action. I have another Swede action that I'm going to have another put together on, but the work will not be as extensive. Even so it will end up being more expensive then many good production rifles. $:-\$ But I know and accept that going into the affair.

Nowadays I would not even chop up a trashy old Turk Mauser. No need to. There are plenty of examples of Bubba's handywork at gunshows. Get an already ruined milsurp rifle. My 338/06 started out it's life with me as a "sporterized" '03A1 I found at a gunshow for $200 some odd dollars. The work was passable enough so that, after killing a deer with it in the original 30-06 cartridge, all I really had to do was have it rebored to 338! I had more done,

but I didn't have to!

olydraft · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2010, 06:46:15 AM »

I think if he wants to build, GO FOR IT, it`s a great learning experience and is worth the cost as long as you keep in mind that it is not going to be cheap. I decided to bukd a 1911 because I searched and searched and come to the conclusion I could build one cheaper than The RIA at the time. I figured all the parts would only cost me a little over $300, That was cheaper than $350, right! Then "WHY" in the end when I added everything up at the end of the build did I come up with $700. I know it was cheaper to do it myself because I added up all the parts and the total was only$319 That Is cheaper Right??? I can`t figure out this $700 stuff.. I guess it`s just my math skills, I never was very good with addition and subtraction!!!. The point being is be ready to spend the bucks, enjoy yourself because the learning experience is priceless... Gary

swordfish · « **Reply #15 on:** April 01, 2010, 08:33:35 AM »

Quote from: mannyrock on March 08, 2010, 05:18:40 AM

True Billy. But does he have his own action wrench? Barrel installation equipment? Headspace gauges? Head sinks? Bolt bending blocks?
Drilling and tapping tools? Replacement Stock? Replacement sights? Replacement Trigger? Replacement safety? Cutting and crowning tools? Acra-Glass? Replacement follower and mag spring?

The devilish thing about sporterizing military mausers is that each component, by itself, does not seem to cost that much (a $100 or so), but by the time you add them all up, plus gunsmith time, you are up to the $600 to $800 area really really fast :-)

Just my experience.

Mannyrock

Well crap! After reading that I don't want to have anything to do with the Spanish Mauser I purchased to tinker with. Anyone interested in it? Will let it go cheap. PM if interested

KodiakKid · « **Reply #16 on:** April 02, 2010, 09:17:21 PM »

it seems to me that it wouldnt be cost affective for the first one but if he's going to do another he would already have the tools and experience to do one relatively cheap so i say go for it!
ps im rebarrelling 2 small ring mausers with 6.5x55 and a 250 savage barrels

squirrellluck · « **Reply #17 on:** April 03, 2010, 04:36:35 AM »

If it is about costs then stop right here. If you are interested in learning and enjoy tinkering the you will enjoy building.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #18 on:** April 03, 2010, 05:17:04 AM »

Quote from: squirrellluck on April 03, 2010, 04:36:35 AM

If it is about costs then stop right here.

True, "sporterizing" is a way to spend hundreds of dollars turning a $400 rifle into a $100 rifle!

Quote

If you are interested in learning and enjoy tinkering the you will enjoy building.

Also true, but a gunsmith is a machinest. Like was said, if you don't have the tools and/or the knowledge you're behind the 8 ball from the start.

If you enjoy tinkering, try building BP rifles. It can be done with ready made parts and hand tool, involves wood and metalworking and precision without the machinest's knowledge or equipment. It can be as easy (say using 99% finished wood and metal parts) or as difficult (starting with a block of wood and flat and round metal stock) as you want to make it. Great fun!

eye shot · « **Reply #19 on:** April 03, 2010, 06:03:15 AM »

98 mauser $200
Fajen stock on sale $46
ATI clampon reciever scope mount $36 on sale
Dura Coat finnish and sprayer $50
Bold trigger OPT. $37 on sale
$369 or $332 and hone original trigger and go hunting.

mannyrock · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2010, 11:42:28 AM »

No offense guys, but he asked what it would take to make the rifle into a NICE sporter. Not a cheap as possible, clamp-on-high-mount, unbent bolt, military trigger and safety, plastic stocked shooter. Again, you are looking at $800 plus. If you have the money to burn, and enjoy this type of project, then go forth. But, you will not be able to sell the sporter for much more than $350 after you are done.

Hard earned experience.

Best, Mannyrock

Tackleberry · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2010, 10:19:39 AM »

Ok, you said Spanish 8 mm....it may be the M1943 in 8mm that was also produced at OVIEDO which is a K98 clone...should be safe enough for anything up throught Magnums. The older one, the older M1916 Spanish which is actually a 1893 which they rebarrellled to .308 (7.62 x 51 NATO)..it's really marginally safe if it's actually been rechambered for NATO.

You will never save money building rifles on Mauser actions but it sure is fun..I've done several. Once you get the tools..it's not so bad. Reemers can be shared through reemers exchanges. This is the only way I could have gotten several calibers I always wanted to play with without buying very expensive guns. So the first one cost me about $500.00 with tools...the others (there have been around 5 now) are running quite a bit cheaper...in the $250.00 range..You can of course upgrade these with commercial shrouds, triggerguards, and triggers, which can make the price soar. The Adams and Bennett barrels are very good barrels for the money. They are a little rougher inside and outside than a Douglas or Shilen but they do work and can be accurate, some more than others. Bedding, I believe, is the key to getting them to shoot right. These barrels can be had for $79.00 at times on sale at Midway. Put them on your wish list and Midway will email you if they go on sale.

The nice thing is about having all the tools mentioned above..get tired of a caliber?...swap the barrel out quickly and easily.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2010, 02:48:09 PM »

FWIW, IF it's a large ring Mauser 98, the FIRST thing I would do before I spent one red cent (or another minute of my time) would be to have the action hardness tested.

Some Mausers, Spanish Mausers in particular, are notorious for having soft actions - which leads to premature bolt lug setback, which leads to excess headspace, etc, etc.

Get it checked first.

.

mrussel · « **Reply #23 on:** May 31, 2010, 06:05:24 PM »

Quote from: dwalk on March 06, 2010, 08:53:05 AM

first...like said above...determine if it's a large ring or small ring.

if it's a SMALL ring...you'll need to be cautious with handloads...use the minimum recommended.

i happen to have a small ring 93 Spanish Mauser and the only barrel that is recommended for rebarreling for this particular action is .257 Roberts, or staying with the 7x57.

military barrels undergo a great deal of use/abuse and they should be thoroughly inspected before using; there may have been many mercury primed rounds cycled thru a rifle of that era.

i happen to luck out and find a timiney trigger for mine years ago and it makes a difference; i don't know if there are any good aftermarket triggers available any more, after all these rifles are no longer in demand as they once were. i also installed a heavier firing pin spring to cut down lock time (it does make cocking/closing a little more difficult, too); the firing pin travels nearly an inch. i was unable to find any source for a titanium spring or firing pin.

it's a good idea to have the rifle evaluated by a good gunsmith to see if it would be worth your time and the expense involved to undertake the "sporterization" of one of these old rifles. if during the evaluation it is found the action is not straight and square, they can be straightened, but it should be accomplished by a competent gunsmith.

overall, i find mine to be quite accurate and easy to shoot. i still have the old military barrel on it and if i ever decided to rebarrel, i will probably stay with the 7x57. the 7x57 ammo is still readily available and is one of the great all around cartridges available.

What about large ring receivers that were fit with small ring barrels like the Turkish ones?

mrussel · « **Reply #24 on:** May 31, 2010, 06:10:26 PM »

Quote from: eye shot on April 03, 2010, 06:03:15 AM

98 mauser $200
Fajen stock on sale $46
ATI clampon reciever scope mount $36 on sale
Dura Coat finnish and sprayer $50
Bold trigger OPT. $37 on sale
$369 or $332 and hone original trigger and go hunting.

Please dont replace a nice piece of wood with a cheap piece of plastic with the injection molding seams still showing. It makes me cry every time I see an old military rifle that had that done to it. They never keep the stocks either.