Author Topic: Load Development (Read 558 times)

pete50 · « **on:** November 12, 2003, 03:02:29 PM »

Greetings,
I am trying to develop a load for my 30.06 encore t/c custom shop 22 inch barrel. I took 57 rounds to the range yesterday and over the course of 3 hours, shot 47 times (thanking myself for buying the brake). Although several different loads shot into a 2 1/4 circle, nothing jumped out at me. I noticed that the barrel would often heat up and when I let it cool off to help my friends with their shooting, it shot differently. My question is what regimine do you follow when shooting different loads for development? Second, when you alter loads, what should I alter first...bullet, powder, powder charge, seating depth, primer, cases, etc. I have recorded everything and kept the targets. I shot 10 of each type of load, in 2 groups of 5 shots, then posted new targets. I did not clean at any time on the range. I guess overall, for my first time trying to develop a load for this barrel, 2 inches isnt that bad. By the way, the best was sierra btspt-gk 150g over 54.0 g IMR 4350, loaded to 3.200 O.A.L. using RP cases, WLR Primers. 3 shots touching, but 2 shots out of the 2 inch circle on the target. Thanks for the help. See ya at the Public Range in Sunny Chester, WV. Pete

KN · « **Reply #1 on:** November 12, 2003, 04:28:52 PM »

Not trying to be critical, but how are you shooting? Off a bag, bi-pod, what? The reason I ask is when you say that one load has 3rds touching and a couple of fliers at 2", I tend to think that your fliers are probably shooter error. TCs are pretty finnicky about shooting them consistently the same way every shot to get the really good groups. If you can find a load that will touch 3 out of 5 I would work on my shooting technique with that load and see if it improves. Just my $.02 KN

The Shrink · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2003, 01:16:55 AM »

Pete

To answer part of your question, the priority of changing components depends on the use intended. I don't shoot competition, so my primary interest in developing serious loads is terminal ballistics. I want essentially opposite terminal ballistics from hunting to self protection. For hunting I want a balance of penertation and expansion, but for self protection I want something that will fragment relatively quickly and not endanger someone two or three houses away.

For these reasons bullet choice is my primary goal. I look for bullets that will accomplish what I want and try to get them to shoot in my guns. If for some reason that bullet won't, I will go on to my next choice, or maybe trade guns. I typically change powders and can find a powder to shoot my bullet in my gun most of the time.

Admittedly, if you are shooting competition, you can ignore this post!

pete50 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2003, 02:51:09 AM »

Thanks for the help so far. I am shooting off my rangebox on a bench. Admittedly not the most stable of things to shoot off of. I am interested in hunting applications only. I have never shot past 200 and dont plan on it. The woods here are dense and a 100 to 150 yard shot is rare. Usually I could use a bayonet more often than a high power 9+ scope. For some reason, the sierra bullets I have loaded have always worked good for me accuracy wise. I load for 7mm Rem Mag also and my first loading is 1" or better at 100 yards. Never went further than that. I'd like to use the Nosler BT's but can never get them to shoot in for me?? I have been reloading for 3 years, but I am not a fanatic shooter. I have two small kids and 60+ work week, so my time is very limited. I just enjoy tinkering and the scientific aspects. Dont care about any savings, but am not into throwing money away on a $50 box of bullets either,lol. This forum should be mandatory reading is all the load books. I know I have picked up a lot of things just from reading all the postings. Pete

High Brass · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2003, 09:05:56 AM »

Pete,

Three shots touching is pretty darn good. Big game rifles most generally should be kept to three shot groups. Unless you shoot all five with the barrel cold, they'll open up generally after that third shot. With a 2" group at 100, you're still plenty good to deer hunt with. I know that you may be seeking better accuracy, but you actually have plenty for the ranges you mentioned. I hunt in WV as well so I know the terrain. I load 55.2 gr. of IMR 4350 under 165 gr. Nosler BTs. They aren't hot at all, but boy are they accurate. When I can do my part, this load will typically cut one ragged hole at 100 yards. More often its around .6-.7 inches. Good 'nuff for me.

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2003, 09:21:29 AM »

I've been doing this a LONG time, thirty some odd years, likely getting close to 40 years. I do things a bit different than many do based on lessons I've learned in that time.

First thing I do is to decide on what bullet I want. I don't generally make that decision based on the bullet's accuracy potential if it is intended for hunting. I look first to terminal performance. You say you are using a .30-06 and I'm assuming it is for deer or antelope not for elk, moose or big bears. So you don't need premium bullets. They are never bad just not really needed in standard cartridges like the .30-06 for use on normal game like deer. That is to say that bullets like those from Hornady, Remington and Winchester that are of standard configuration will do just fine. They will also generally be quite accurate. Sierra and Speer will also do just fine if you get their hunting bullets.

So once you've selected your bullet and here you might want to select 2 or 3 different ones from the group mentioned above it is time to look at powders. What I do here is to scan several different loading manuals. I look to see what 2-4 powders deliver the highest velocity across the board in the various manuals. Those are generally the most suited to that particular round. Now I always have a wide selection of powders on hand so I just go see how many of them I have on hand and pick the best 2-3. You might have to go buy them.

Here again I am much different than many. I no longer play around with loads from starting load to max in 1/2 grain or one grain increments as I once did. Over the years I have noticed that in my guns the best accuracy most often comes at or near the max load. So I use those manuals to see what is the average max for each bullet/powder combination. I then will generally select my starting load as one grain less than my selected average max. I seat the bullets to the max length I can based on either magazine or chamber which ever is the most limiting factor. For you Encore it will be the chamber as you have no magazine.

For TCs my usual procedure for determining seating depth is to take the barrel off the frame. Size the case and seat a bullet just barely in the case. See if it will fully go into the barrel. Chances are it won't. Now continue to seat that bullet a wee bit deeper until it does fully go into the chamber with the barrel off the frame. Since bullets do vary even in the same box I now seat it about another 10/1000" deeper and lock the die down there. Load some more and see if they fit. If so that's the setting I begin with.

Now take them to the range and use the best and most stable platform you can to shoot from. If your not solid as a rock then there is no real need to worry about developing a load. Just pick one and use it. Only from a solid as a rock shooting platform can you take you out of the picture and find out what the gun/load is doing.

I shoot three shot groups. Don't care what a five or ten shot group will show me. I'll never shoot that many while hunting any way. The ONLY shot that really counts is the first one. If it don't consistently go where you want then you need to adjust the scope. If it isn't in the group with the others that's a whole nother problem to discuss.

So at this point I'll have a batch of six each (for two three shot groups) of several different bullet/powder combinations loaded and will head to my range out back. Shoot as carefully as you can each of those three shots. At this point there is no advantage to waiting between shots longer than it takes to get the case out and another in and line up the cross hairs. Make it like hunting. Game don't always let you wait a minute or more if a second shot is needed. Don't rush but don't dally. I never shoot more than two three shot groups from a rifle barrel in a row unless the day is really cold and windy. I do not heat up my barrels period. I take more than one gun and shoot another while waiting for the first to cool.

I use a target stand that holds either six or eight targets. I have both. When all six or eight have been shot I walk down range and change them out. When I'm finished with all the shooting I take them inside and analyze them. I select the most consistent couple of loads and load up more of them. Usually this time three three shot groups of them. I go shoot them and select the most accurate of them.

Now if you have a chronograph or access to one you may want to consider velocity as well as accuracy. But a hundred fps or so ain't gonna matter in the real world. Neither is a half inch of accuracy one way or another. I want a near max load that is safe in my gun, shoots under an inch preferably but 1.25" to 1.5" at 100 yards is really adequate for what you will be doing and what I do almost all the time. I have a rifle, actually now it is my wife's as I gave it to her, that has never been much better than a 1.5"-2" shooter at 100 yards. But in about 20 years of use by three of us hunting with it that rifle has never missed and never needed a second shot on anything we've taken and that's a lot of game between the three of us.

GB

Iowegan · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2003, 03:04:31 PM »

GB speaks the truth. I use the same technique for rifle loads; select a bullet, find optimum seating depth, try a few powders loaded toward the high end, and 3 shot groups. Unless I get a bum gun, most times the group size will be an inch or less at 100 yds if I do my part.

The biggest single accuracy factor is "bullet jump". This undesirable effect is from seating bullets too deep in the case. Most reloading manuals state an "over all length or OAL". This is the SAAMI spec which is usually way too short for most guns.

When a bullet is forced from a brass case under considerable pressure, it moves through the free bore and strikes the rifled bore causing it to be slightly deformed. While moving in the free bore, the bullet has an opertunity to move sideways a little. The bullet is then forced into the bore with more deformation on one side. Now what you have is a bullet traveling down range that is not truly round and it spreads your group. Seating the bullet where it is .010" from touching the lands, minimizes bullet jump deformation and results in better accuracy.

The Shrink · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2003, 01:39:03 AM »

Pete

You mentioned that Serria bullets shoot well in your rifle. Be aware that Sierra makes two very different designs of bullets, often in the same size and caliber. One is designed for target use and the other is designed for hunting. Any of their hunting bullets will do what you want, you don't need to go to the premium bullets any more than one needs the best new hyper-long or -fat magnum cartridge.

If you don't know which bullet is which, contact Serria. They are very willing to help, either via mail and phone or by e-mail. They can probably answer any question you have concerning the use of their bullets, and will probably tell you which powders and loads are most accurate in their Encores.