gas checks ...?

[irold]

Afternoon ladies and gents ,

Question...I bought 500 lead swc , Keith type bullets.  They were manufactured by a local outfit then sold to various gun shops.  I thought they were a good buy, seem to shoot pretty well, etc.  I discovered my loads ( 45 colt ) were leading my SRH very badly. Only after a couple dozen rounds I could literally push lead from the riflings with a tight dry patch.    I was starting to blame a rough bore or something.  The load I was using averaged 1060 on my chrony.  Anyway I was talking to a local....found out he was using these bullets also, said he never had a bullet lead like these do.  So , assuming these bullets are junk....can I put gas checks on them....(I know nothing about making lead bullets ) or is that something that has to be crimped on or something ?  Ya think this would help my leading problem till I burn up these bullets ?  I assume these can be bought at one of the web stores...These would come in different sizes to match the dia of the bullets ?  OR...should I just really slow them down to say 850 fps or so...maybe that would help ?

Thanks...regards,,irold

[Blackhawker]

To the best of my knowledge, there are several factors that can lead to leading:
1 - the wrong sized bullets
2 - too high of a velocity.
3 - too hard or too soft of a bullet

With regard to #2, you should be OK with velocities under 1200 fps or maybe even up to 1400 fps.  The fact that you're getting leading in your barrel tells me that you're either oversized or shooting too hard of a cast bullet.

With regard to #3, too hard of a cast bullet does not allow the bullet to obturate in your barrel.  If the bullet does not expand into the rifling, then hot gasses can pass along side of the bullet into the grooves and cause the lead to become molten and basically plate out inside your barrel.  There is an optimum harness that should be used when dealing with cast bullets.  A lot of casters that sell large quantities of bullets cast their bullets up to 20 or more (Brinnell Hardness) to avoid the bullets from becoming dented up in transit.  A lot of people think that the harder the bullet, the less chance of leading.  WRONG, as I had described above.  

Check around the web for articles on bullet hardness and barrel leading.  There is a lot of good info out there.

[bilmac]

Putting gas checks on a commercial cast bullets is not likely. The bullet has to be designed for the gas check. To put one on there needs to be an area at the base of the bullet that is smaller in diameter than the bullet shank. This is where the gas check fits. Most commercial casters use molds that are not designed for them. Also gas checks are sold by the thousand and are a bit spendy. If you were able to put them on your bullets you would use 250 or 500 checks and the rest would be wasted.

I would change your load. Try shooting them at 800 fps or as blackhawk suggested maybe a bit faster than your current load. You may have to accept some leading, but not excessive like you have now.

[Graybeard]

Unless the bullets have a rebated rim to crimp the GC on the answer is no to solving your problem with gas checks. You need to measure the diameter of your bullets, your bore and while at it the cylinder throats. Most likely you'll find a serious misfit in that process. Come back with those measurements and someone here might be able to offer a better suggestion for you.

Some folks have a bit of success with a soft over powder check made of various substances from waxed milk carton to plastic egg carton and even thin cardboard. I've never personally trusted that stuff but it does work for some.

[gypsyman]

irold, without seeing the bullet, but, knowing that the majority of commercial bullet casters don't use a mold with a gas check option, the answer is probably no. The mold has to be designed with a gas check ''groove'' so to speak on the base of the bullet. gypsyman

[45-70.gov]

fire lap  it

see if your barrel is constricted where it is screwed  into the frame

if  so    shoot it out

rugers  seem to be the worst for that

[Blackhawker]

Sorry , I guess I never answered the part about putting gas checks on your bullets.  If the bullets are plain based or bevelled at the bottom, then NO is the answer.  Cast bullets that are made to take a gas check have a crimping grove at the base and the gas check has to be crimped into the groove when resizing the bullet.  ......as many others here have already answered.

[gray-wolf]

Have you shot lead bullets in this pistol before??  If so how did they shoot? any leading?
 If not what have you been shooting?
Do the bullets have a base that looks like they should have a little cap or a cup on them ??
Is there Lube in the lube rings, the grooves around the bullet body ?
  Without knowing what the hardness of these bullets are --it is very difficult to say what the upper end Velocity may be.
  Was the leading just ahead of the cylinder? --up near the muzzle or the whole barrel?
What size are the bullets .451--.452--.453 or .454 ??
What size are your cylinder throats and what does the bore groove measure.

seem to shoot pretty well, etc.

Shot well by who?

  If you can answer some of the questions it would help.  There is no big mystery about lead bullets
but there are some thing to consider.
 Get back with some info.  Perhaps we can help.

GW.

[Lloyd Smale]

severe leading is more like caused by to soft an alloy then to hard. I have found it rare that to hard of an alloy will be the cause of leading. A gun my lead up with a hard alloy but id bet a dime to a dollar that if it does it would do the same with a soft alloy and the same bullet. My guess is either they were cast to soft or sized to small and are probably using a hard (useless) comercial lube or a combination of these things. Does  your gun lead with other cast bullets? If it does id then look at your gun. this whole theroy on bullets bumping up is hogwash in my opinion. If your gun is made properly and has the proper cylinder and barrel dimentions a bullet that is hard will outshoot a soft one at any speed. Think about what your doing when you ask a bullet to bump up. You are distorting the bullet and it will no doubt not distort in the same way each and every time. What your basically doing with soft lead and bumping up a bullet is sending a misshaped blob of lead out the barrel and you surely arent going to get guilt edged accuracy like that. Granted it may help if you have a gun with small throats or a to large bore but id about bet that gun isnt going to give great accuracy with anything. Fix the gun first instead of putting a bandaid on your bullet casting.

[irold]

Sounds like I need to give ya a lot more info.  I neither have the tools or the knowledge to measure the bore, throats , etc as ya requested.  I did however , dig out the starrets and mic the bullets.  First , lets start out with..my SRH  shoots fairly well with everything I feed through it.  Even with these "bad" lead bullets.  I'm refering to accuracy here. I've used "Hunters Supply" 275 grainers before, again shot well...velocity was about 1000 fps..don't recall much leading.  Of course it digests XTPs very well...shoots tight groups, etc. 

According to the box , both the Hunters Supply and the "bad" bullets...are supposed to be .452.  They mic out as follows:

275 gr Hunters Supply , all that were measured miced out at .4525 and .453
255 gr "bad" bullets ,  all that were measured miced out at .4535 and .453

Basicly .001 difference....surely .001 wouldn't make that much difference ??  We did get one thing straightened out...there is no groove or ring on the base of the bullet for gas checks.  Its just a flat base bullet with two lube grooves with a hard red lube in it. I have discovereed , cheap isn't always the best way.   Guess I'll just stick with a quality lead or use jacketed HPs or soft points.  I was looking for an inexpensive bullet for practice...the price of most quality leads are right up with the least expensive jacketed.(casting my own is not an option)  I use a lot of Nosler bulk handgun bullets...however for hunting, I stick with XTPs.  They have been responsiable for all my deer kills.     Anybody having any suggestions, I appreciate it.  Thanks to all for your help..........regards , irold

[gray-wolf]

severe leading is more like caused by to soft an alloy then to hard. I have found it rare that to hard of an alloy will be the cause of leading. A gun my lead up with a hard alloy but id bet a dime to a dollar that if it does it would do the same with a soft alloy and the same bullet. My guess is either they were cast to soft or sized to small and are probably using a hard (useless) comercial lube or a combination of these things. Does  your gun lead with other cast bullets? If it does id then look at your gun. this whole theroy on bullets bumping up is hogwash in my opinion. If your gun is made properly and has the proper cylinder and barrel dimentions a bullet that is hard will outshoot a soft one at any speed. Think about what your doing when you ask a bullet to bump up. You are distorting the bullet and it will no doubt not distort in the same way each and every time. What your basically doing with soft lead and bumping up a bullet is sending a misshaped blob of lead out the barrel and you surely arent going to get guilt edged accuracy like that. Granted it may help if you have a gun with small throats or a to large bore but id about bet that gun isnt going to give great accuracy with anything. Fix the gun first instead of putting a bandaid on your bullet casting. 
 

  Hey take a chill pill Mr. Lloyd Smale
Ever ask yourself why some of the best bulls eye shooters use SOFT lead bullets in there pistols.
Ain't for the reasons you mentioned. They do it cause they work--BUT--
 Having a soft lead bullet work and obturate (bump up) is a product of bullet hardness and pressure.
They go togeather and work as a unit.
To many X ring shooters have proved you wrong.
  Yes the pistol should be set up right, but not many are, And that's another whole thread.
But to make a statement that soft lead bullets will only make you shoot mis shaped blobs of lead
is way beyond my understanding.

 

this whole theroy on bullets bumping up is hogwash in my opinion.

 

 I am glad that is only your oppinion. It sure ain't that of many others.
 

 

[Blackhawker]

Ya know, when I said soft, I didn't mean pure lead soft, just not a Brinnell Harness of 20 to 24.  Something in the range of 15 to 18 or even up to 20 should be fine.  Just don't shoot "rocks" or "spit-wads" out of your pistol.