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Author Topic: Composit Ammo  (Read 683 times)

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Offline little seacoast

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Composit Ammo
« on: February 17, 2010, 09:14:11 AM »
Hi, I thought I would solicit informed opinions before I actually try to fire one of these creations.  I found that a 2" case hardened ball from Fox is a tight friction fit in a tomato paste can.  Have filled the can with fiber reinforced concrete to within an inch of the top and then driven a ball in on top to add a rounded nose. A 2.24" wooden sabot screwed to the can base completes the round.  Weight 1lb, 13 oz.  What unintended consequences are likely when firing such a projectile with moderate loads of powder, say 500 grains?  Picture to follow.
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2010, 09:19:09 AM »
Little seacoast,
Are you planning to fire this projectile from a smoothbore cannon?
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Offline little seacoast

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 09:27:56 AM »
Yes, A 2.25 Parrott.
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 09:42:52 AM »
I'm no expert in ballistics, but wouldn't an elongated projectile (even being front heavy because of the placement of the steel ball) start to tumble, or at least wobble severely in flight without any rotation imparted to it?
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RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Terry C.

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 10:19:14 AM »
Weight in front, wind resistance in rear, should behave like a foster slug.

Of course this is contingent on it staying together upon firing.
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Offline GGaskill

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 10:30:50 AM »
Of course this is contingent on it staying together upon firing.

So true.  Is there a through bolt that goes from ball to sabot?  Also, I am thinking that the "tail" weighs too much (being filled with concrete) to make the projectile noticeably nose heavy.
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Offline dynomike1x1

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 11:28:25 AM »
How much will the can expand on take off, or will it matter?
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Offline Artilleryman

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 12:30:57 PM »
I don't know if really need the sabot.  Try it both ways and see which is the most accurate.   
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Offline little seacoast

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 01:17:51 PM »
Thanks for the feedback. The projectile is noticeably nose heavy, balance point being about 3/4" below the upper rim of the can.  There shouldn't be any expansion of the can considering it's filled front to rear with concrete, now measures 2.17" after the ball was driven into the can, can't see it coming out or needing a through bolt.  Tried to drill the ball on a drill press, it's not happening.
I'll try a couple tomorrow and see what happens.
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Offline Double D

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 02:09:03 PM »
Quote from: little seacoast on February 17, 2010, 01:17:51 PM
Thanks for the feedback. The projectile is noticeably nose heavy, balance point being about 3/4" below the upper rim of the can.  There shouldn't be any expansion of the can considering it's filled front to rear with concrete, now measures 2.17" after the ball was driven into the can, can't see it coming out or needing a through bolt.  Tried to drill the ball on a drill press, it's not happening.
I'll try a couple tomorrow and see what happens.

 Did driving the ball in the can expand it?
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Offline moose53

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 02:19:11 PM »
I found that when shooting cement filled cans out of my 3 in rifle , I could push them out to about 600 yards before they would start disintegrating . The sabot may be a very good idea , should have tried that on my cannon before I sold it .
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2010, 03:52:59 PM »
Looks good to me ! If it blows apart try less powder . Hopefully the ridges on the can will offer some support ?
Gary

I love these improvised shots . I've thought of using copper pipe sweated to a steel ball ?
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Offline Victor3

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2010, 02:13:47 AM »
 Considering the fairly long length of the can with the weight of the ball up front, the concrete might be pulverized and expand (maybe split) the can to the bore diameter.
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Offline Rickk

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2010, 09:34:53 AM »
I helped out on a cannon team at an AAA match last year. Lead tipped concrete filled cans was pretty much all they were all shooting. The cast lead noses were more hockey puck shaped.
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Offline little seacoast

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2010, 10:50:42 AM »
Tried out a couple today and yes they work OK.  I was unable to recover either as they dug themselves way out of reach in the clay bank. Nice round hole though so apparently they didn't tumble a lot in 100 yards.  Found a few fragments of a sabot in the bank but nothing else.  750grains of F are a grateous plenty @ this range. Dom- thanks very much for the great toy!    
Still a few minor pieces of hardware to attach but couldn't wait any longer to try it out, "finished' is a relative term around here.

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Offline RocklockI

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Re: Composit Ammo
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2010, 11:03:53 AM »
Sweet YOU made the thing up and it worked ! Thats very cool . ;D Good work L. S .

Gary

ETA maybe take a long pole (fishing) and see how far in the things went .
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